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View Full Version : Long term Profits within Negative Expectancy



Lokes
08-17-2009 11:30, 11:30 AM
Long Term Indulging at a Negative Expectancy Game

***** Caveat***** Many will disagree with what I am about to write. If you cannot accept mathematical certainty, please don't waste your time studying this.


Trading retail FX is a negative expectancy activity. I hope all readers understand what negative expectancy is....but I will give a very short description. Every trade opens with a negative at the profit/loss column due to the spread. This spread has to be overcome on any trade before profit could be submitted. If there were no spread, FX would be a game of neutral expectancy, meaning overtime random entries could be made out of equidistant profit and stop loss points. Over a significant number of trades you would like to break even. The spread makes that profit and stop loss points non-equidistant and puts FX trading in the realm of negative expectancy. Should you go with a 2 pip spread, you have to go a 10 pips greater for a 10 pip profit, but you want just 8 pips lower for a 10 pip loss. I hope that everyone can see that, from a probability standpoint, FX is adverse expectancy.

Thus, how to overcome this negative expectancy? You need to have a system that correctly predicts the direction of a currency pair in a rate of higher than 52 percent (give a 2 pip spread) while keeping profit and loss points equidistant. You may manipulate your system up or down this scale. As an example, you may reduce your win , but you have to correct your profit point to compensate for the win rate.

Is there a system that can produce positive expectancy with equidistant profit/ loss points? I don't think there is such a system accessible to small retail traders. None that I have reviewed hold up to long term scrutiny, although I've observed claims of systems. Please don't buy a retail FX program. If one of these systems could generate a positive expectancy, even a tiny one, the programmer would be wealthy beyond their wildest dre rather than interested attempting to get you to send your cash to them.

I've a winning strategy --how long until I'm wealthy? Perhaps you have access to inside information and can forecast currency management at a winning rate. You are still not home free. You have to conquer randomness in the market and handle your cash in order to not allow randomness and volitility wipe out you. Consider the following: You have a system that generates 60% win rate given equidistant profit reduction points. Transactions must I enter to be 99.9% sure of a win? N= log(1-.999)/ log(1-.60). This yields N=7.5. This number tells us every 1000 trades you may hit on at least 1 stretch of at least 7 or 8 winners in a row-- even with an win rate of 60%. Don't be surprised when these losses happen, they will happen to some mathematical definitely of 99.9%.

Some people make big money in FX. Absolutely some do. Some take accounts of $500 and turn . $500 is taken by some blackjack players and turn it into $20,000 in a few hours. Same for blackjack, craps, etc.. These folks are currently experiencing short term volatility in a way that is positive. It cannot be sustained and should they continue to trade or perform for an elongated period of time their account balance will be zero.

Conclusion. Please don't take this to mean I'm a kill joy! I have traded FX for quite a few years and have had periods of great success, together with fantastic disaster. I trade from time to time, however I do it for fun, somewhat akin to casino gaming. If you are trading retail for any other reason you will be disappointed. You could be effective for a few months or even years, however ultimately if you trade you will be wiped out.

Pepole5000
06-27-2022 03:48, 03:48 AM
I know this is late but I'll just post my view anyway. I think what the OP needs this is a guaranteed money-making formulation that will never fail, a free lunch. I don't think anything can exist in something as complex as the market. Whenever someone decides to begin their own company, do you they have a formulation that has pre-calculated the positive or negative expectancy of their company? No, and as a matter of fact it is understood that 90-95% of all new business fail in the first five years (like traders?) . Some businesses are becoming successful for a number of years. These businesses haven't figured out a key formula that will create profits. RISK is there and past results are no guarantee of future performance. Same with all and trading of finance. That said, among the principals of TA is that trader behavior repeats itself and price movement can be exploited. This debate will never be solved if you don't feel that .
Also, those negative expectancy calculations that you employed to casino games are legitimate because casino games are DESIGNED based on mathematical formulas that will produce additional profit for the casino compared to the participant. I don't see how you can apply calculations into the market as though the market has a architect who made it to operate according to a particular formula.

balzalegim
06-27-2022 05:10, 05:10 AM
I know this is late but I'll just post my view anyhow. I believe what the OP needs this is a free lunch. I really don't think such a thing can exist in something as complex as the financial market. Do you have a formulation that has pre-calculated the negative or positive expectancy of their business, when someone decides to begin their own business? No, and as a matter of fact it's understood that 90-95% of new business fail in the first five years (such as traders?) . Nevertheless,...
lol welcome new sufferer muahahaha

benegicpk66
06-27-2022 06:32, 06:32 AM
I believe what the OP needs here is a free lunch, a guaranteed rewarding formulation that will never fail. I don't think anything could exist in something as complicated as the financial market. Hm... you know about her background, do not you. You and I disagree.

kalavemas11
06-27-2022 07:54, 07:54 AM
The odds against George Soros are ~478 million . Can we let this thread die plz.

alsanboj
06-27-2022 09:17, 09:17 AM
This thread is really a classic.Hope you carry on with the upgrades Fxpetra.

yours riding the lightning,

.