Hey...what about Volume?

[pkcci]

Hello. . .its been awhile since I've posted. Private and health problems have prevented me from having the ability to post. . .but I have NOT ceased trading or watching the markets. In my continuing attempt to interpret the lessons I learn from my experience in the futures market I have to ask you all here (the more experienced the better). . .how come men and women use the volume information contained in their brokers?

I have to admit I have gone on record here as saying the volume information on the forex market is practically useless. I repent those words. I have been utilizing the volume advice from my forex broker (oanda) and have found that I CAN interpret some of the classes of my futures trading into the forex market. . .perhaps monitoring although not in the exact same way, but back testing are demonstrating to me in utilizing the volume information which most of us have available to us, the potential.

I haven't studied much about VSA (Volume/Spread Analysis), but I do not thing one needs to get so preoccupied with that. As you may recall from previous posts, I am trading Forex, as a means to grow my savings account...I do NOT look at this market for daily income just like I do the forex market howeverthe same principles I trade there, also operate in this market. . .those of order flow.

A big portion of order flow trading is volume. Specifically those volume metrics which are separated by where people are currently transacting. . .the bid or the ask. Therefore the futures market divides the volume as follows: buying quantity = those transacting on the ask (or the bid in the futures market), and selling volume = those speculating on the bid (or the deal in the futures market). Thus it is no problem to locate anomalies in the futures market utilizing this information provided in each candle.

However, this information doesn't exist in the forex market. BUT there is a way to use the tick volume data on the forex market in combination with price's reaction to that volume and come up with nearly the same thing.

How about you personally? Do you use the tick volume data in your trading? Why? Or why not?

[lani3096]

Many traders claim they incorporate order flow in their trading. As I know it, order flow is information about bid and ask volume by price amount for closed and pending orders. Footprint chart,Market Depth and Level II for futures reveal order flow. But some order flow traders don't use tools such as footprint chart or Market Depth. They assert the moving average, stochastic or MACD indiors they use show order flow. I'm really perplexed. Can anyone comment on that?

[Gemeoxys]

quote your understanding on the 3 stages is spot on. Your analysis is flawed. Quantity is a tick counter that means it's localized to that particular broker. Eg: broker A has relations to 25 LPs. The tick count, will be higher when compared with broker B whom simply has relations to 10 LPs. Simply because MT4/ECN are tuned to quote best bid/ask. Having more LPs to vett thru will lead to more changes. Only as long as you're trading stocks that requires a centralized exchange, then quantity of a particular instrument will be less or more true the correlation between sign quantity (Currency Market ) and actual volume (Forex ) is over 90 percent
the greater LPs the closer the correlation.

[gskhan]

Many traders claim they incorporate order flow in their trading. As I understand it, order flow is information about bid and ask volume by price amount for pending and closed orders. Footprint chart,Market Depth and Level II for futures show order flow. But some order flow traders do not use tools like footprint chart or Market Depth. They claim the moving average, stochastic or MACD indiors they use show order flow. I'm very confused. Can anybody comment on that? There is no way a retail trader can get accurate order flow.

Utilizing indiors/fibo to predict order flow is just a thesis in itself. Like all thesis, assumptions need to be made.
Eg: I will sell eurusd if it retracts to fibo 38.2%. Because order flow indicate to follow the tendency, get in at a retraced price. Fibo amounts are frequently gone to by and retracement. (this is a premise )

[Gemeoxys]

quote there is no way a retail trader can acquire accurate order flow. Employing indiors/fibo to predict order flow is a thesis on your own. Like all thesis, assumptions need to be made. Eg: I will sell eurusd in case it retracts to fibo 38.2%. Because order flow suggest to follow the tendency, get in at a retraced price. And retracement goes to fibo levels. (this is an assumption) there is no way a retail trader can get accurate order flow 100% correct

However: Order Flow example usdjpy 1M (just occurred )

No assumptions except 1 Buy low, Sell high i.e so called Smart Money (sarcasm intended)

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468850.png

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468851.png

... sufficient to let for a BE and let it go... repeat

[mamokovo]

quote there is no way a retail trader can acquire true order flow 100% right But: Order Flow example usdjpy 1M (just occurred ) No assumptions except 1 Buy low, Sell high i.e so called Smart Money (sarcasm intended) image image... enough to allow for a BE and let it go... replicate Let me disagree with you on that, we mightn't get 100% of this book but we could get access to all it. Of course not in forex but if you use its future in a regulated market which is 99.99 connected you can get it.

[Gemeoxys]

quote Let me disagree with you on that, we may not get 100% of this book but we can have access to all it. Of course not in forex but if you utilize its future at a regulated market that's 99.99 correlated you can have it. I concur

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/trading-discussion/27-canadas-prices-rise-expected.html

[mamokovo]

quote I concur https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/trading-discussion/37-thoughts-book.html It ought to be crucial in each trader to know that, but regrettably is a simple fact that most of”traders” ignore.

[Gemeoxys]

quote It should be a must in every trader to know that, but sadly is a fact that most of”traders” discount. I would rather that many ignore it (:

[Fomlinemipks]

quote I'd rather that many dismiss it (: Do I find after all the years of disparaging the notion that potential edges exist a sign of optimism?

[Gemeoxys]

quote Do I find after all these years of disparaging the notion that potential edges exist a hint of optimism? No, not at all.

[lenike35]

Subs. Thank you
Regards

[jllemibike]

quote I don't think anyone else has put these three concept collectively... Climax Exhaustion Absorption If these three stages are present, a swing stage is either forming or is going to form. How successful would this be if you're wondering WHEN to enter on such a retracement to rejoin the trend. . .or WHEN to take profit on your trade? Hi DonPato,

whenever you have some time, can you clarify a little how do you find those three theories?

Cheers

[cpm23]

quote the correlation between tick volume (FX ) and real volume (Futures) is over 90 percent the greater LPs the closer the correlation. They are not accurate (contract rollover, hour difference) but very near. A good broker with good volume (many customers, very good LPs) should give good readings. I was a non-believer in volume too, but you can find useful things you can get from it.
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468880259654166.png
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468884342545353.png

[pkcci]

quote They are not accurate (contract rollover, hour difference) but very close. A good broker with good volume (many customers, good LPs) should give excellent readings. I was a non-believer in volume too, but you can find helpful things you can get out of it. Outstanding coding saksif...I wonder if you would be prepared to share it? The histogram on delta volume appears very much like one I coded for the futures e-minis, but with outside bid, ask quantity I wonder how that information is extrapolated? At any rate I would like to refer back to your photos now if I could. They show excellent examples of just two of the concepts I came to understand trading futures.

[pkcci]

quote your understanding on the 3 phases is spot on. However your analysis is flawed. Mt4 volume is a tick counter that means it's localized to this specific broker. Eg: broker A has relations to 25 LPs. The tick count, will be greater as compared to broker B whom simply has relations to 10 LPs. Simply because MT4/ECN are tuned to quote best bid/ask. Needing more LPs to vett thru will lead to more changes. Only if you are trading futures which demands a centralized trade, then volume of a specific instrument will be less or more true Again, I agree with this 100%. . .later today I will show how my idea formed of these theories, but you are correct. There's no centralized exchange in the Currency Market market and consequently no clearing house to enroll the true volume, at any level, ie, that volume that is really being transacted. Even futures can simply reveal what's BEEN transacted. . .not what is waiting to transact...(order book) at any given level. . .at least my platform simply shows pending orders 10 points below or above current price.

That having been said, I think there's value in tick volume. . .in reality I an many traders I understand use constant tick volume as candle charts to trade with. I THINK. . .this concept for me personally remains unproven in Currency Market. . .that by assessing the tick volume your broker provides you can show on a broad basis the concepts of orgasm, fatigue, and absorption. I feel these come with a few caviats. Utilize the totality of the daily tick volume - I am unsure tick volume is beneficial in intraday trading. . .for the reasons everyone here has recorded. These stages don't necessarily happen in order, so can seem arbitrary. This is true regardless of what market you trade. Like anything else in Currency Market, your broker controls what you see, thus by using daily charts with sufficient stops, he can't gap price to hunt your stop. . .at not without drawing a lot of attention to what he's doing. . .this are bad for business.

[pkcci]

Hi, When you have some time, can you describe a little how do you see these three theories? Cheers
OK. So can you display on chart those phases(Climax Exhaustion Absorption)? I will try. . .so lets start with a simple explanation of what these theories are. The easiest to see and understand (and what the majority of people call fatigue ) is the idea of Climax Volume.

This the place where the order flow is controlled by one side or the other, and contributes to large candles with very tiny wicks. You can see these usually in two overall areas of your chart. . .the start of a change, and somewhere near the end of the move. Every loion is caused by various things. The first (near the start of a change ) is really where the stops from the dominant order flow have already been run, flooding the market with orders and pushing it in one direction quickly. . .my mentors affectionately call this, the woosh. The other place where you will see that this is toward the end of a movement, where opposing order flow provides up (again stopping out) and also the late trader (usually the retail guy after his MACD or Moving Average) jumps on the tendency and also things that this movement will continue...

So here's the order flow concept question to consider. Once everyone who is going to participate, HAS in fact participated, what happens to price? Think about this for a moment. . .lets say long. . .once everyone who wants to buy HAS in fact purchased. . .who's left to keep on driving prices higher? Has this happened to youpersonally? You see a strong move on the market and you believe its has all of the standards (you were educated to look for) and you also get on too. Shortly then, price does NOTHING, or even starts going back. What happened?

You're taken in by ejaculation volume. Everyone was now on board and no one is left to push prices any higher. Our friend just posted some superb case of this with his own indior. . .and proves that the tick volume in Foreign Exchange CAN be used in a very similar manner to that of futures
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314688871164129074.png

[pkcci]

Lets take same chart without the renko indior (I presume its renko pubs he's using)
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314688891973423399.png

You can clearly see here the orgasm both started and completed each swing movement. . .but over that. . .they were precursers to the end. If you're one who trades reversals, (and BTW everybody who is a fashion trader should be searching for that change at the base of a retrace) then your biggest question is obviously, when is this change likely to be over? This maybe can provide you an idea. . .wait for that orgasm move to show up first. . .then move to the fatigue, and finally the absorption to turn your entry with the smart money.

[pkcci]

Another example from the e-minis themselves. . .this is where my thought arises.
Notice the red candles at the conclusion of this final move down. . .climax volume. This coding is a bit different as I have access to buy/sell info. Each red candle has 3x the selling quantity as buying quantity.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314688921028282614.png
Note also the delta volume under every candle. . .Also notice near the peak of this move down. . .the orgasm. I'd love to utilize this to additionally illue the concept. . .that of exhaustion. . .next article

[pkcci]

Exhaustion:
This state where price continues to move in the path usually preempted from the previous orgasm. But on always lower or less volume. Technicians call that this momentum. I strongly disagree. While price continues to move in the direction of this trend (at last as far as they have defined it). . .the volume shifting that price is lower and lower. Even on volume, price stays moving. . .this is largely because there's actually not opposing order flow to battle it. Thus because the dominance is established, most new entries are at the same direction and because of very little opposing order flow, (to take the other side of their trade), price continues to tick in this way in an attempt to entice new conflicting order flow to fill the orders which are left in the market.

Many explain this as momentum, screaming, grinding. Its nothing more than exhaustion since the larger orders happen in and what little conflicting order flow there might be is from these larger orders, taking profits out and suckering in the new entries.

In the futures market I've been in a position to quantify this as any candle in which the dominant order flow drops below the average while at the same time the conflicting order flow rises above the average. (Average can be what ever you would like it to be). Here is an illustration
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314688942056326656.png

[pkcci]

One more instance. . .this period in Foreign Exchange:
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314688971119495805.png
even without the special coding to color the bars, you can observe the tick quantity drops off dramatically much as price reaches new highs. . .same can be said for the lows viewed here. . .new lows. . .yet clearly NO volume. (momentum? , churning? , grinding?) NO! Fatigue

[pkcci]

We come down the notion of Absorption. . .but I'll have to leave that for another day...I've some duties to attend now and will attempt to comment more tomorrow. I hope you find value in what I am attempting to communie here. Please don't hesitate to ask questions, and understand that I'm still developing these ideas so nothing is set in stone quite yet (not for me ).

I believe that using daily tick volume on NY near market, there is enough information to enter and exit trades that may move you to provide at least 3xR, and keep ceases sufficiently from the means of broker's meddling. But that is just MY opinion. . .please don't be afraid to offer yours.

[Gemeoxys]

Exhaustion: This state where price continues to move in the direction usually preempted from the prior climax. But on always lower or less quantity. Technicians call that this momentum. I disagree. While price continues to move in the direction of the trend (at last as much as they have defined it). . .the volume shifting that price is lower and lower. Even on quantity, price continues moving. . .this is largely because there is actually not opposing order flow to challenge it. Thus because the dominance is established, most new entrances... Hello,

Just how can you define dominant Order flow?

Thanks

[pkcci]

quote Hi, How can do you define notable Order flow? Thanks Great question...

On my futures I define it because the side of this market that generates the maximum volume in its own direction that contributes to price moving that intended direction. Example: Climax quantity = 3x the otherside's volume. (if buying quantity is 100, and selling quantity is 300 - or longer ), sellers are dominating the market and therefore producing a bearish price bar.

Of course anomalies happen, particularly on very small time frames. I've observed on time frames of 150 ticks or less, that there are often bars where the selling is more than 3x the buying, yet, a bullish bar or a doji will form. These are normally ranges of 2-4 ticks. These observations obtained me. I will need to be at the pc for me to adequately explain that further. I currently am not.

Therefore if purchasing gt; buying AND near lt; open AND close lt; 50 percent of range. . .selling is notable.

[xisoxzo]

quote All these are usually extremely small ranges of 2-4 ticks. These observations got me investigating the concept of absorption. I will want to be to explain this further. I currently am not. Thus if selling gt; buying AND lt; lt AND open; 50% of range. . .selling is notable. I use absorption and mini-absorption since the final cause in my trading... very high% of trades will probably reach BE, lots of trades will probably make high RR profits, and few trades will probably strike first SL.

Lively with holiday, family, travel, but should you want to explore farther we can talk.

These signals were programmed into sierra chart using quite similar logic to what you explained.

Best,
N

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468770632475228.png

[xisoxzo]

DonPato,

Posting the same chart with signs as previously, as well as zoomed view of every signal with and inner perspective of this BID vs ASK/OFFER bars at every level. Hopefully this will help illue the point I am trying to make. At the bottom of the chart you'll see Delta and Total Volume for each bar.

There are obviously additional considerations to be made before trading every signal, but I believe these charts are at the exact same spirit as your article regarding absorption, bid/offer divergence with candle shut.

All of the best,
N.



https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/153146877326617408.png
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314687751523141209.png
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314687771178204988.png
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314687801533141038.png

[pkcci]

Hey there Nik-Nyc.. .you beat me to the punch line. . .but you are spot on. I have coded something much the same into my trading but do not have the (as I am not really a developer ) which reveals it out by each price level. . .Good for you! You've done what I have tried to do on a much bigger scale. If you are utilizing a 4 tick range pub, I am using tick charts which are considerably bigger compared to the concept is identical. OK. . I suppose I have a little time so that I will get into this last phase now...

However congrats Nik-Nyc. . .this is exactly the concept I am trying to put across. . .as that you put it to trigger trading.

[pkcci]

Absorption: This idea is often more difficult for people to grasp as we are taught the the more participants or volume in one direction, the longer price will move in that way. However this is not always correct. . .We all understand that for every buyer there must be a seller. It is a fundamental tenant of the market. Actually there IS NO market unless you have two parties willing to transact from other sides. 1 buyer, one seller. But what happens when the guy who wants to buy as much cash he can absorb all market orders at a particular price until there's absolutely no one left to market?

This will register as an anomaly. Greater selling volume but price doesn't follow suit, or actually goes UP. This is absorption. When an order's volume (how many lots he/she is willing to transact) is so large it can absorb all of the available volume in the opposing side and not permit price to move any further. . .someone or something is coming in with substantial volume and after the sellers are all sold out, price will rise, because this order's volume has not been filled entirely. So with buying volume to transact, price starts ticking higher.

It can be viewed (again in stocks markets) or markets using any fundamental trade, when one side of the order flow cannot move price any further, even though it is transacting more volume than the other side of the order flow. Example. A bearish bar that has more selling than buying but finishes (closes) at least 50 percent of the bar's range off the lows.

Here are a few examples from an earlier screen shot.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314687851581036791.png

There are two different kinds of code at work on these bars. . .both are registering basically the exact same thing, one on delta volume, and also one on total volume. It is this volume concept that I believe will work in the forex market.

[pkcci]

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468787392639034.png
USD/CAD - brief...I just entered this trade and it is the perfect illustration of exactly what I THINK we can translate as absorption. Bearing in mind that we're using total tick quantity for 24 hrs, this candle reveals rising quantity and completed bullish after breaking into new highs. But it close below 50 percent of their total range for this day. I've been exploring this for just a short while today on the FX side, and am interested in what others with this kind of experience think. I have found it to be rather consistent, and would require a rule set. . .one that I am working on today.

We should adhere to this trade and find out how it works out.

[pkcci]

Summing things up...
Before, or merely as, a swing point is forming, you will find three inevitable phases that the order flow will pass that will provide a sign in the market regarding WHEN you ought to either, take profit in your current trade, input a new position from the other path, or both (stop and reverse). This idea relies on fundamental and well proven order flow theories and work in the market every day. They are:Climax - . EVERYONE. . .fundamentalists, Technical analysts, urge traders, EVERYONE. The volume will be very obvious and easy to see. Exhaustion - Frequently called momentum. Price continues moving in the direction of this orgasm volume (or grinding) on successively lower volume. Even on this lower volume price continues to proceed, due to lack of interest in counter party trade Absorption - The condition where with higher volumes at the management of the dominant order flow, price does NOT last, or even moves contrary to the order flow. All three must be present to get a legitimate swing point to form. Valid in my thoughts as to if I will consider taking action.

[pkcci]

Final thoughts...
All three must be present, but they don't always happen in precisely the exact same order. At the same time, often time you can have them happen on different time frames, and across multiple distinct perspectives of the market. . .these are just verifying.
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314687891972625748.png

OK. . .that's my two cents worth. Do you feel that has any value? Is it worth pursuing? Should we try to refine it and continue this conversation?

[pomlalsanviweb]

quote Yes it functions in MT4
....The following signals were programmed into sierra chart using quite similar logic to everything you explained. Greatest, N image

...I've coded something very similar in my trading....
Anything to talk about for MT4?

[Jomge113]

Final thoughts... All three must be present, however they do not always happen in the same order. At the same time, often time you'll have them happen on various time frames, and across several different views of the market. . .these are only verifying. picture OK. . .that's my two pennies worth. Do you feel that has any value? Is it worth pursuing? If we keep this conversation and attempt to refine it? Don Pato,

Thanks for the Superb analysis...https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468755.png

[jllemibike]

Closing thoughts... OK.. .that's my two pennies worth. Do you feel this has any value? Is it worth pursuing? If we keep this conversation and try to refine it? Thank you, DonPato.

I think this is high excellent information and it worth further refining.
And I like your interaction .

Cheers

[Almengmy]

Thanks Don Pato, intriguing
You may wish to have a look at that (from page 8):https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468794652672341.pdf

[yagomogmigwzp]

Amazing post up to now, I personally think it ought to continue.
I personally studied PVSRA before but I enjoy the in-depth quantity analysis, can somebody please explain this chart?
How can it be called, what does it do, how is it used? Perhaps incorporate the Expert Advisor that generates the chart(if you want of course).
Thanks!

.
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314688011403778225.png

[pkcci]

Wonderful post so far, I think it ought to last. I personally studied PVSRA earlier but I like the in-depth quantity analysis, can someone please explain this chart? How is it called, what does it do, how is it used? Perhaps include the Expert Advisor that creates the chart(if you want of course). Thanks! P3rri. image Thanks P3rri... the chart you mention is a futures chart revealing bid and offer transactions at every price. In other words. . .the actual order flow. This information is not available in the FX market since there's no central exchange. So the purpose of this thread. The way to interpolate this same information using the resources out there.

[pkcci]

quote quote quote anything to discuss for MT4? Waldo..the coding refered to this is in the futures market and can't be utilized in FX since the data doesn't exist. That's the reason why I am profering this thread to utilize the information readily available to attain the exact same mission. The FX market traders are in a distinct disadvantage because of the lack of a central exchange. But you can use the tick data on the mt4 platform. . .you may want to call your broker and ask where that data comes from. My comprehension of mt4 is it it restricted to your broker. Be Ready for a lot of blank stares though

[xisoxzo]

DonPato,

Great Articles and analysis. The exploration of volume, and specifically the Bid vs Ask activity is well worth everybody's time. After starting to study and understand Price itself is basically a product (dare I say: an indior) of Bid/Offer activity I made the switch to Futures and haven't looked back. There may be a benefit for spot Currency Market traders, but have not researched it enough to make sure... in the Forex market, there is without a doubt an edge that exists after a trader can understand what's going on.



@trader-waldo: Aren't utilizing mt4, but should you explore sierra charts I can help you set them up. Google numbers bar study sierra charts to begin.

@P3rri: These charts have a couple of distinct titles, I am using sierra charts where they are called numbers bar study. You could even check out OFA charts, however there is not any reason to cover their applications when free alternatives, and really better applications exists.

[mamokovo]

Look what volume does. .
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468807559649437.png

[anais.zu]

This is a thread that is brilliant.
I have heard of a couple of companies which will supply volume data not tick.
It feeds to the MT4

[y]

Look what quantity does. . picture Clutter up your screen?

[mamokovo]

quote Clutter up your screen? Sure it does

[xummu1995]

Look what quantity does. . image I will love to learn this orderflow and quantity. Would you point me?

Regards

[Begooxmsol]

This really is a brilliant thread. I've heard of a few companies that will supply volume information not tick. It feeds to the MT4 You will never get actual quantity for FX (Do not get scammed)

[anais.zu]

quote You won't ever get actual volume for FX (Don't get tricked ) Could you describe why?

I know that there is a high correlation between the two in any occasion

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.fxstreet.com/amp/eduion/volume-in-the-forex-markets-useful-or-not-201703091034

[aljc01]

Hey.. .what about Volume?

LOL

[amigusam]

So in order to notice a huge candle compared to others, people need a volume indior?

[pkcci]

quote Could you describe why? I know there is a high correlation between the two at any event https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.fxstreet.com/amp/eduion/volume-in-the-forex-markets-useful-or-not-201703091034 The main reason why is that there is no central exchange. . .no only repository for the data. The FX market is DEcentalized. . .so the only volume that is even reported is transactions or ticks. So thereal info we are after, like just how much is traded at the price, does not exist. . .it can be extrapolated. . .and cannot be more than a certain percentage of accuracy. Whereas the futures (or any other market for that matter) must report each trade concerning size, price and management.

[pkcci]

Thus in order to notice a massive candle when compared with others, people require a quantity indior? Of course not. . .but if that massive candle is on corresponding very low quantity you bet I am looking hard for some hint to go another way.

[anais.zu]

quote The reason is there is no central exchange. . .no only repository for the data. The FX market is DEcentalized. . .so the only volume that's even reported is trades or ticks. So thereal information we're after, like just how much is exchanged at what price, doesn't exist. . .it can only be extrapolated. . .and cannot be more than a certain percentage of precision. Whereas the futures (or any other market for that matter) must report every single transaction concerning dimensions, price and direction. I think I should have qualified my first announcement.
Anyhow I will keep quiet and let you get on with the thread.

[pkcci]

quote I will really like to learn this orderflow and volume. Would you point me? Regards Here's the guy that got me . https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/trading-discussion/201-renko-charts-tma-band-ccband-idea-fiddy.html

[Kalman]

quote Clutter up your screen? Yes, if by clutter up your screen, you mean give you incredible insight into what's happening beneath the surface of the market.

[pkcci]

Hello all, I have been receiving some very good feed back here on the thread and via personal message. I thank you all for the feed back. So just a quick update on yesterday's USD/CAD - short
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468715215032783.png
So far position is positive 40 pips, but sufficient for me to pull down the stop to yesterday's high, and pull on the limit order for an add in. So risk is reduced to 27 pips. We'll see what happens.

[pkcci]

So I wish to continue the dialogue. I must also mention I have received some personal messages out of commercial traders informing me that what I am doing here is absolute idiocy. Perhaps not the concept as much as discussing with you all. Truth be told, I am one of those people who gains and strengthens my market beliefs out of intelligent discourse (that's you). Even if you (and everyone here) were to gang up against my place, I just don't believe your miniature lots combined will move the market much against mepersonally. So lets continue.

I've seen the questions and remarks regarding forex quantity and futures quantity. Lets just tackle this again. . .accept it. . .and proceed. Forex is TICK volume. That is, it's a trade counter. It does NOT provide true quantity, in that it reveals how many lots (true volume) were transacted, or at what price, or if it was about the bid or the ask. It is just how many trades (both buy and sell) happened. Thus absent this information we are never likely to be able to discover true delta (buy vs market ) quantity, or find those areas where absorption is happening on a micro time frame. This is one of many reasons why I do not trade intraday on this market.

But on a entire daily tick quantity, we could utilize that information to show the same concepts without the gee whiz look at the indior. But we must keep in mind fundamental principles and the larger structure of this market. FACT: Everyone (and I mean everybody ) MUST transact the same way we do. . .by placing orders in the market. FACT: Those order are always streaming into the machine that we call the market in a stream we call order flow. Each of these trades creates a tick which, when totaled at the end of the day represent the comparative activity of ALL trades as compared to the day before. FACT: When one side of this market has greater quantity (true volume) relative to the other side, price will move that way. Thus we can return to a very fundamental conclusions and use those to create a egy to make the most of this order flow with just the basic tools available to us. . .price, time, and quantity.

Now that we have seen that price will continue in the path of dominant order flow. . .even when exhausting volume, We're now presented with these choices:Join the current dominant flow Wait for the dominant order flow to alter Do nothing Your judgment will have to be the guide on this. My personal opinion is to ascertain the tendency of the bigger order flow, and try to join that if it pauses or pulls back. Thus the dilemma that began my search to order flow and quantity. . .How does one know if the pull back is finished? Fibonacci degrees, support/resistance, gann lines. . .all useless since they do not look at the structure of this market. The better question is when will the order flow shift? It seems foolish for me to place an order out in space and hope the market will come back to it, and worse yet it will'magically' turn just as soon as it hits my order.

It sounds more intelligent to read the order flow learn the signals the market reveals you concerning if it has had enough of one management and will turn, then place my order and determine if I could get filled. We understand that if we search for the 3 phases, Climax, exhaustion, and absorption, and even on a mostly inaccurate scale like tick quantity. . .we have a greater probability of success, and can keep risk tighter than it otherwise will be on those larger time frames.

It sounds a very simple matter to me to be individual and simply check daily charts in the NY close to rate each daily candle once it has finished. As well, to only exchange in the management of their last monthly inflection point. This ought to provide multiple opportunities through the year out to create 20-50percent on any account. For me, that means only having 3-5 successful trades each year. That would be NET successful trades which make at least 2.8xR. I believe this goal is realistic and achievable. I've already proven it so, in a prior thread. Now I feel that combining the concepts, of price, structure, order flow AND volume will make this a reality. Frankly the Volume bit was the last piece I was always looking for.

[asiemcacho]

I traded tick volume for more than a year, and every time someone came and brought up, that it is skewed, I protected it the exact same way that it is demonstrated that 99% the same as actual volume, etc.. Then once I attempted actual volume from curiosity, it was immediately evident that it is simpler to read, because the low and high volume reveals itself more clearly (so it is simpler to see where the big players come in or stay out of this market), trading actual volume for more than a year as well, and I can't imagine myself return to tick. When I put it back on my own forex platform I am like WTF is that?

This is your problem with tick vs. actual. Of course in reality it is much more nuanced.

When there's an aggregate big order of a 1000 units (share, contract, lot whatever) sitting right over the market to market at a tight cluster (sell limits at resistance for example), and a huge participant comes in, because lets say he wants to take the market right now and has to absorb this selling, he'll go and take each of the 1000 at market price over, so actual volume adds 1000. It doesn't matter if it comes out of a 1000 small traders trading 1 lots, or 10 big ones trading 1005 or 5 even bigger ones trading 200. 1000 taken.

With tick volume it will tick more or less depending on how many trades are executed. When the trades chance to be smaller it'll tick more, if larger it'll tick less.

Sure when volume is merely an small piece of your trading, tick volume could be great enough to look at, such as be certain , there was more action here than there, for me though it is absolute critical to know the true volume. Therefore it also depends on how serious about volume on your trading.

[pomlalsanviweb]

My comprehension from tradeguider, tom willi, gavin, is that tick quantity is similar to attributes quantity, can be utilized for quantity analysis and no matter which one trader utilize success depends on interpretation. There are lots of posters here who knows much more than me about quantity...

[pkcci]

Update on USD/CAD brief:
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314687211020261116.png
Position is now 156 pips positive and I have moved the stop to basically break . . .it will lock a few pips.

[pkcci]

... So it also depends upon how serious about volume on your trading. I think we're very serious about our trading. . .and in fact I will tell you I am. Once again. . .volume in other markets is true volume, but we need to use would be tick volume in the FX market. . .fact of life. We either use it to our benefit or don't.

As I devote my intraday trading to the futures market I utilize the volume info . . .that being said, there is also away to interpret the lessons learned there to the FX market as well. This is what I've said from the start of this thread. The FX market offers some advantages that the futures market doesn't. . .leverage on small accounts for you personally. Liquidity for another. . .availability,

If done carefully and with a high enough leverage (what you bring to trade), I believe the tick volume (the only volume available) will work.

Enough said? We have now established the advantages of other market's volume, and the disadvantage of tick volume. . .lets proceed shall we?

[pkcci]

Hi All.. .This should be my last post before the new year. I wish you a very Merry Christmas, and a very prosperous New Year. I hope you have discovered something of value here in this thread and also you'll be able to use it to your benefit in your trading. Before we go...a last upgrade on the USD/CAD Short:
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468701.png
Currently about 160 pips positive open commerce profit, and I have moved the stop down to lock roughly 1/2 of the profit. Today's and Yesterday's trading came to over 30 pips of their take profit at the base of this range. So, perhaps the minimal volume environment following Christmas day will push thing far enough to reach my TP level. If not, I've locked a little more than 3x my initial risk, so what ever happens here I am OK.

[eguoxcca]

How about you? Do you utilize the accessible tick quantity data on your trading? Why? Or not?

It might work. However one doesn't need tick volume to be a profitable trader.
Think tick volume like a phone case or screen protector, an attachment to your phone, a trading platform.

[oxmlibega]

Maybe currency correlation would provide a notion, for instance, if there's more dollar buyers across the board, then it would reveal volume being pumped to the usd? Not sure how appropriate that is, just an idea

[yagomogmigwzp]

How about you? Can you use the accessible tick volume data in your trading? Why? Or why not? It may do the job. But one doesn't need tick volume for a profitable trader. Think tick volume just like a telephone case or screen protector, an attachment to your telephone, a trading system. With all the respect I think you aren't right.
The inventory market/futures market/forex etc works just like any other market.
Bid/Ask - Supply/Demand - Buyers/Sellers.
Once we say volume we aren't talking just about the ticks but just how much pressure every facet puts, what type of strain is it? Is bear volume raising or bulls volume increasing(Bid/Ask). There are a lot of items that Rookie traders don't listen to. Sometimes I would say that bid/ask type of volume is far more powerful than the price of an instrument.

.

[eguoxcca]

P3rri,

This is Currency Market markets. From now US traders enter markets, a few Asian traders are still sleeping. So buy/sell worries by Asian traders are useless to US traders, since Asian traders can't defend their position any more.

If you scalp in an session, on little TF Tick, M1, M5, then reevaluate volume may be helpful.

[pkcci]

P3rri, This is forex markets. By the time US traders input markets, some Asian traders are sleeping. So buy/sell worries by Asian traders are unworthy to US traders, since Asian traders can not defend their position any more. If you own scalp in an session, on small TF Tick, M1, M5, then reevaluate volume might be helpful. This is precisely the reason why I am advoing using 24 hr tick information. You will have all markets across the planet included and have a better idea of net involvement. As well the lull between markets (called gap time) when volume drops off could potentially create false signals which won't occur when using whole 24 hr tick data in the NY close.

Again it is a work in progress but that is my thought about using tick data. We must recognize it has flaws and develop a plan to tackle it.

[yagomogmigwzp]

, This is forex markets. From the time US traders enter markets, some Asian traders are still sleeping. So buy/sell worries by Asian traders are useless to US traders, since Asian traders can't defend their position any more. If you scalp in an session, on little TF Tick, M1, M5, then tick volume might be useful. You're wrong here.
We aren't responding to historical volume as much as we respond to this one that is occurring in front of our eyes.
When utilizing Bid/Ask the biggest amount of entrances are in the current candles.

[summa]

This really is a brilliant thread. I've heard of a couple. It feeds to the MT4 Volume info in FX won't have any benefit; since regardless of what company provides it; it doesn't cover all ECNs. Therefore; it isn't representative of the legitimate market volume.

[anais.zu]

quote Volume data in FX will not have any benefit; because no matter what company provides it; it doesn't cover all ECNs. It is not representative of the legitimate market quantity. I believe We've covered this point in this thread haven't we

[pomlalsanviweb]

quote I think we have covered this point enough in this thread have not we what was the purpose of the thread?

[AigaKlein]

quote Volume info in FX won't have any benefit; since no matter what company provides it; it does not cover all ECNs. Therefore; it is not representative of the legitimate market quantity. Doesn't matter, it's not the true quantity that matters in volume-specific undertakings pertaining to Forex. Everybody understands that volume by number cannot be determined.

It is relative quantity that we are looking after, and it's something like 90% connected to true volume change. Relative quantity is the underlying change from bar to bar, or even a set as a whole.

[yagomogmigwzp]

quote Doesn't matter, it's not the true volume that matters from volume-specific undertakings pertaining to Forex. Everybody knows that volume by exact number can't be determined. It's relative volume that we're looking after, and it's something like 90% correlated to authentic volume shift. Relative volume is the inherent change from bar to bar, or even a pair as a whole. EXACTLY! People don't understand that Tick volume is important as well and that is really close to the real one and the changes and the signs! https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468635.pnghttps://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468636.png

[Bmaoxsole]

Is in MT4, signify real volume in market??

[poliyeipkm]

is in MT4, represent real quantity in market?? Are you really serious? Did you read the thread? You've got the solution in almost each post since page!

[Almengmy]

https://www.fxstreet.com/eduion/volume-in-the-forex-markets-useful-or-not-201703091034

Interesting

[Gabmielaso]

Hello all. . .its been quite awhile since I have posted. Many private and health problems have prevented me from being able to post as frequently as I like. . .but I have NOT stopped trading or watching the markets. In my ongoing effort to translate the lessons that I learn from my experience at the futures market I must ask you all here (the more experienced the better). . .how come hardly any people use the volume information contained inside their brokers? I must admit I've gone on record as saying the volume information on the Currency Market market is practically useless.... Failed to read all the articles, I exchange crude prospective on MCX(mcxindia.com) and in future market volume issues and you can acquire precise volume so my egy according to Volume Weighted Average Price works. Attached indior works great on Future market, not sure about spot market because of missing volume.
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314686502034135161.ex4

[pkcci]

A quick update on USD/CAD brief.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314686562106028894.png
Price continues to move my leadership (however slowly) in the minimal volume article christmas market. I've left my stop in which it is and will check again in a day or so.

[pkcci]

quote what's the point of this thread? I believed I had said it clearly enough initially but will revisit this again. I have found in futures trading that volume is a appreciated and useful instrument. With the understanding that spot FX volume isn't THE SAME as stocks volume I wished to know when I could - yet - interpret the lessons learned in futures to spot markets utilizing tick volume.

I can see that people here either lack a basic grasp of volume and exactly what it implies to trading, or else they do understand and haven't chosen to utilize that info to their benefit. OK. . .to each his own. I just thought this could be of some worth to someone out there, and that perhaps we may all put our heads together and develop something that may work.

Come friends. . .anyone out there want to donate?

[pkcci]

OK...I will go first. . .How does one know if they're in a secure range? In other words how do we answer the age old question, do I buy(sell) a break out, or exchange the advantages for your return to the other side of this range? Or better stated, is this split a fake out?

What determines range equilibrium? Yep you guessed it. . .volume. Under such circumstances, no one (except us scalpers) is really interested in engaging because of the limited scope of this range. . .thus volume drops off. . .especially at the borders or the top and lower limits of this range. . .in fact it's this volume that truly sets the range.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314686601925213665.png
With this accompanying screen shot, note the way the tendency ended with an absorption stage following climaxing buying volume. This resulted in a tiny double top, and this instant shirt was a large clue. . .lower than average volume. From there until current, each price approached the temptations of this range, testing the limits. . .volume DROPPED OFF. . .thus establishing a range. The only order flow engaging in this would be those willing to take profits within the boundaries of this range....note how volume picks up as price flows through the center of the range then drops off at the border again...

Also worthy of note is the spike in volume at the top of this range. . .yet no break. . .BIG CLUE! ...

Still think tick volume is useless?

[0h1gimecliok]

Almost the whole thread discussing over an already well known topic (Tick data versus real quantity ). Something which DonPato stated clearly about the first article. Still most people thinking they are sharing some kind of hidden knowledge about tick information and the way it works (Some even get it wrong).

DonPato I have read your posts (until I have lost in the previous discussion) and I see you're sharing the interpretation (procedure thinking) you move trhough when linking Tick volume and the description of distinct Patterns or Behaviors, however I didn't see anything related to clear statistical validation of your previous interpretations.
Previously I have tried to obtain some consistencies at Tick Data splitted by time (Y Axis) however I didn't end with anything conclusive. My question is, have you gone through a structured procedure to confirm the behaviors you explain? In that case, could you share how you have tested them and the outcomes? If you didn't, I would be careful since it's easy to become lost in the idea without validating it correctly.

For a side note, I do use Tick Volume in my trading.

[pomlalsanviweb]

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314686641479675324.png

I'm long from 1.2695, sl 11 (1.2684), tp 30
--
gone, will enter again if disperse is back to normal.

[pkcci]

I'm extended from 1.2695, sl 11 (1.2684), tp 30 -- gonewill enter again if spread goes back to normal. Yeah. . .you might want to wait till the price reaches at the bottom and compare prices volume and movement. I usually try to stay away from executing within the range.

I don't refer to it as price action anymore... it is price REaction, as you are comparing the structural components of time, quantity and order flow to learn how it affects price. . .THEN decide in which direction and to execute.

[pkcci]

.... My question is, have you ever gone through a structured procedure to confirm the behaviors you explain? ... I have on the futures side. . .long story made short. . .order flow preceded quantity change and quantity change precedes price change. That's how I came up with my theory about the different phases of exhaustion. They are basically those periods concerning market structure.

My problem on forex is how to accomplish exactly the identical thing using tools that are available. Even though the FX market is decentralized it functions the identical way. So I have a few ideas on principle sets to check and then gather the statistics you're asking about.

Bottom line (I can't recall the exact number) but it's upwards of 88% probability when all three phases are complete a swing point has been made or is being made on the open volcano.

I have to find a means to correlate the exact same pattern using just tick quantity. . .thus this talk...

[pomlalsanviweb]

A quick update on USD/CAD short. image Price proceeds to move my leadership (however slowly) from the low quantity article christmas market. I've left my stop where it is and will check again in a day or so. Nicely done.

[pkcci]

well done. Thank you Waldo...
Update on USD/CAD...I was restricted out on this short for a bit over 200 pips having an original stop of approximately 50 pips, that is 4xR profit on this trade.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468556982597233.png
The way things seem at this point, it may be shaping up for another run at the top, but I will not understand until close of day today.

[xisoxzo]

quote Come friends.. .anyone out there want to donate? Hi DonP,

Nice dwell commerce on UC... 4:1 trades go a long way in maintaining the equity curve pointed in the ideal direction.

Regrettably, my trading attention has moved to the futures market, so my donations towards the decentralized FX market with tick data are extremely limited. From a theoretical perspective, I really do agree that a border can be found, but there'll surely be nuances out of your own futures analysis, and this will require some investigating and testing which you've started.

Will keep your eye on the dialogue , thanks for sharing.

N

PS Not to distract from your discussion , but'm curious which chart type (tick, range, volume, time, PF) you use for you futures analysis? Trading Chart?

[noehpcs]

Friend, I advise you to find out ed-in Range Analysis (LRA).

That is better then with volume...

[pkcci]

... Not to divert from the discussion here, but am curious that chart type (tick, range, volume, time, PF) you use for you personally futures analysis? Trading Chart? I really do lots of time frame analysis about the futures (perhaps to an intense ) but I find those points of view give me an excellent idea of the market every time that I open the commerce station without having to fish through news reports, and various displays. Remember that my commerce station has three screens so that I literally have a panoramic view of the market once I am up and running.

On the left:
Volume charts: (for the bigger point of view)
15,000 contracts and 4,500 contracts

At the middle: (trade management window)
1,350 ticks and 1,350 contracts.

About the right: (trigger entries and exits)
525 ticks and 150 ticks.

Yes all this for only 30 pips (internet ) per day. I know it may be a bit excessive, but for me it gives me a top to bottom approach and tells me where to not just join in a trend, but even when to counter tendency...
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468562852637323.png
Enjoy...

[pkcci]

Buddy, I advise you to learn ed-in Range Analysis (LRA). This is better then with of volume... I have not heard of this before, but I have downloaded and am studying a little PDF (http://lratrading.com/file/get-upload?filename=LRA_ENfileid=5) I'm pouring through it all ready. If you have read some of my other threads, then I think you'll find I'm currently trading in a fashion very similar to this already. Although I didn't know it had a name. I call it common sense trading.

But I welcome any comments about how one uses this to the right hand edge of the chart and when you've used it , of course, in case it's helped you be consistently profitable in your trading.

[isaobi]

quote I've on the futures side. . .long story made short. . .order flow preceded quantity change and quantity change precedes price shift. That's the way I came up with my theory about phases of exhaustion. They are basically those periods in terms of market structure. My problem on FX is the way to accomplish exactly the same thing using available tools. Even though the FX market is decentralized it functions the identical manner. So I have a few ideas on rule sets to test and then gather the statistics you are asking about. Bottom line (I can not recall... My difficulty with using quantity has always been false signals or the fact that it is very subjective. The way I#8217;ve used quantity previously for trading futures,was only looking for double tops/bottoms using a volume divergence to reveal exhaustion. In key areas, these were great areas for reversals - sometimes.

Your commerce was excellent, however I8217;d prefer to see more examples or perhaps some losing trades and ways you8217;d differentiate between valid signals and knowing when to stay out.

Either way, good luck with your research!

[pomlalsanviweb]

quote I really do lots of time frame analysis about the futures (possibly to an extreme). . Enjoy... what is significance of gold cross symbol in your chart. . .and pink/blue dots?

[enmiqwlsg]

Volume is a really useful tool to analyse the market however it does lead to false signals otherwise everybody would only exchange purely off it.

Volume employed in combination with Delta is a lot more powerful.

Volume employed together with delta and a value model is about as good as you can get from the retail space.

This is an example of how volume by itself can lead to the incorrect trade decision.

GC was producing higher highs at a powerful uptrend that morning. Volume increasing on the bars but dropping off on the bars that are down. Everyone believes the market is going to continue higher.
This however is the incorrect. Worth (the colored lines around the GC chart) are dropping off quickly. The rise in volume on the upbars coming to 9am is selling volume as indied from the negative deltas. Selling to the resistance (at the arrow) is the perfect commerce as GC is left on its own with its value lines pointing down or there is a significant divergence offering a top selling price on GC.

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468570488462152.png

[noehpcs]

quote I have not heard of this before, but I have downloaded and am reading a little PDF (http://lratrading.com/file/get-upload?filename=LRA_ENfileid=5) I am pouring through it all ready. If you have read any of my other threads, then I think you'll discover I am already investing in a style quite similar to this . It had a name, Though I did not know. I call it common sense trading. However, I welcome any comments about how one uses this on the ideal hand edge of the chart and if you have used it and, of course, if it has helped you be consistently... Yeah it is really a rather logic method. I believe everebody need to utilize it. Perhaps it's possible to start New Thread for ed-in Range Analysis and we attempt to discuss it?

[Sakugealh]

quote Yeah this is a very logic method. I think everebody need to utilize it. Perhaps you can start New Thread for ed-in Range Analysis and we attempt to talk about it? Hi again in the other threat can you open private messages so I can sent you or open a danger so we dont hijack others people dangers?

[pkcci]

... Perhaps it's possible to start New Thread for ed-in Range Analysis and we try to talk about it? I will let you look after that...I would very much like to continue the dialogue .

[pkcci]

what's significance of gold cross symbol on your chart. . .and pink/blue dots? The sign about the futures charts are those candles which show absorption. As well the blue and pink dots show something very similar but using a slightly different code. However they both signify the same thing. . .increasing volume yet despite that, price response is anomalous.

[pkcci]

My difficulty with using quantity has ever been false signs or that it is extremely subjective. ... I encounter this quite frequently the idea of false sign. After studying it extensively I have to wonder what you mean . . .the notion here is that some thing indicates but does not have the reaction. I believe that's what you are attempting to indie here...

This supposes a few things I have not stated. A sign. . .which I haven't defined in anyhow. That simple fact that it didn't function as expected. . .that happens only when you don't understand the arrangement of the sign generates in the first place. I try to not trade signals but instead to interpret and understand what I think that the order flow is performing at any given point in time. Thus I don't trade by y, x,z, = a,b. I attempt to convey to myself, what's the order flow doing at this time? What does it looks like it might do in the two or bar? Does it look like the order flow will change? And finally, What's price responding to this current and expected order flow?

In my mind these are much better questions to ask compared to, does this candle (or quantity pub ) complete, y, x,z, criteria, and if so, then does that imply there's xpercent likelihood that price will move a,b,c. Just as many men and women attempt to convince you otherwise, the price simply does not do that. . .thus a false signal is generated.

I believe we need to learn and understand the underlying market structure. . .order flow - Volume - Price reaction. Then at any time or point on the chart you are able to make intelligent decisions (enter, hold, exit, stand down) based on what you're reading at the instant. And you don't leave chance or likelihood with your trading. You just read the market and understand that it is changing every moment. So what you see from one candle to another may change. . .thus the nature of the market.

[pkcci]

Volume is a very practical tool to analyse the market nevertheless it does lead to false signals otherwise everybody would just exchange off it.... Please see this article here...

. . .Volume used in combination with Delta is far more powerful. Volume used in conjunction with delta and a value model is roughly as good as you can get in the retail space... I have gone over this ad nauseum. I understand we are using tick quantity. . .Delta is unavailable in the spot Foreign Exchange market. I you or anyone else wants or wishes to use these tools you will NOT find them in the spot market. You might find companies who have discovered algorithms to extrapolate this data. . .fine but it is not the exact same and IF you feel you need this. . .knock yourself out.


. . .Here is an example of how volume alone may lead to the wrong trade choice.... I will engage you on this stage only because it does serve to demonstrate the point I've been trying to make through out this thread. That is before or as a swing stage has been made, a series of stages will occur that will clue you in swing stage which will represent a change in price direction.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468577215998757.png
On your first screen shot with just quantity, I have noticed the stages, of orgasm, exhaustion, and absorption that happened as the swing stage was made and while hard to see, I have drawn lines down for their corresponding quantity bars. I will address them one by one...Climax - greatest buying quantity since the major swing stage (indied from the red dot). Represents all of the shorts stopping out (or taking profit) and confirms the new higher non. . .thus preparing the idea of trend continuation Exhaustion - price continues rising but on considerably lower quantity and this really is the major hint. . .if price will continue rising, why is not there more quantity? Interpretation - the buying has been only short positions quitting. . .no new buys (of any substantial quantity ) are entering. Absorption - Again a substantial rise in quantity and price moves much higher, BUT cannot shut there. Close is (at least it looks from here) 50 percent of the range from the lows. . .on rising volume. Again here it looks like price SHOULD remain higher but doesn't. . .this is the anomalous price response I'm talking about. Again, ALL three stages are present and when complete, a swing stage has formed and price moved reduced stopping out all of the remaining longs and driving price even lower.

Now lets look at the order flow. . .thank you for supplying it.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468581638390951.png
You can see the two arrows you were pointing out where the delta on that candle was adverse. Even as the candle closed bullish. This is the way I learned about absorption. But absorption is only the last stage. It must also be in union with the two different stages or absorption alone will generate a false signal.

Within my work on futures, I used to think that absorption was the signal I should be seeking. . .and really they appear at swing points very consistently. Nevertheless these areas also appear in different things on the chart that end up failing. It is only when observing the other stages of exhaustion and orgasm that you will be more accurate in finding where to enter or exit. Even people are not 100%. That is the reason why I advoe reading the market bar by bar (or tick by tick in case you're a scalper). You must compare the structural elements of order flow and quantity to the way that price reacts and find the inconsistency. . .THAT is the point where the edge is.

[pkcci]

I am thinking that we ought to perhaps return to the fundamentals of market structure. I am pretty sure that this will stimulate conversation even farther. I will attempt to put a series of articles that will hopefully help us understand the nature of not only the markets but also what I am attempting to do by this thread. If this is too gory for you perhaps you can chime in and help me educate. So we'll take this one step at a time.

Market Structure element #1: It takes two to tango
exactly enjoy the tango, you need TWO participants to create ONE transaction (or tick). One who buys and a person who sells. Just like with any other transaction, in case there are NOT two participants willing to transact, no transaction will take place. You cannot buy a car if no one is willing to sell one, and you cannot sell a car that no one is willing to buy. Once you have those two parties, (a party and a counter party) all that is left to do is agree on a price.

Every tick in our quantity counter represents two participants who consented transact bear in mind each one of both of these participants hopes to win. So at some point, the other will abandon the market because he/she is losing too much. So to leave the market one must place another order in favor of the winning player. ( A seller must now buy, or a buyer must now sell). And. . .the exiting participant must now (hopefully) find another counter party to finish his/her transaction, and if finished. . .another tick registers on the quantity.

What exactly does this mean for us traders. . .it will become more clear later, but it is a quazi representation of order flow. Understanding that each one of those ticks represents orders that are filled. . .buyer and vendor. . .it subsequently becomes a query, as to which side is notable? And then is that dominance due to more new entries, older winners departing, or winners carrying profit?

So lets recap. Order flow is simply the flow of orders coming to the market and each transaction registers on the tick quantity. Thus higher quantity = more trades, and therefore greater order flow. Up next. . .Dominance. . .tomorrow.

[fuckingblackboy]

Hi allI would like to share one of the ways I trade.
I look for price to go up and reach Exact Price Levels, (EPL),
and that I think at Volume. Its works and simple. I took this
sell trade Monday evening and shut it .
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468585480092349.png

[enmiqwlsg]

quote Please see this article here... quote I have gone over this ad nauseum. I understand we are using tick quantity. . .Delta is inaccessible in the area forex market. I you or anyone else needs or wishes to use these tools you won't locate them in the area market. You may locate. . .fine but it isn't the same and IF you feel you need this. . .knock out yourself. quote I'll engage you with this point just because... Volume analysis is probably the only useful thing I have learnt on this forum however that is the final step in the process of placing a trade.
If volume / orderflow analysis was the only piece of this puzzle I would be able to write an algorithm and be a billionaire. That mix of quantity and price action pointed out in the article above will happen all around the chart but we have to have a reason for taking the commerce and it needs to be in the ideal location.

Here is the way institutional traders exchange
-Establish a fundamental reason to get a trade
-Either wait or manipulate price to make a discount (or a buy trade) or a premium (for a market trade) on worth. The institutions have complied models that compute value using AI models.
-Look for areas of liquidity to put their orders.
- Execute

We can need to carry out the same procedure as them and wait for the orderflow clues they are creating to look and then cope. But we need to get a fundamental reason and know where worth is. How do you buy something without knowing what its worth is? How can you know whether you'll be able to sell it in the future for a profit.

[noehpcs]

quote I will let you look after this...I would very much like to continue the dialogue . Thank you, but I see there many articles about footprint etc and this is not the appropriate method to trading. That's why I want only ed-in Range Analysis thread. I'm sure I can say more about it, since I use LRA since 2006

[pkcci]

Hi I would like to share one of the ways I exchange. I search for price to go up and hit Precise Price Amounts, (EPL), and I look at Volume. Its simple and works. This morning, I took this sell trade and shut . Hello Darryl. . .thanks for sharing your own method. I'm curious. . .the volume you've running under price. . .is a calculation? If so what is it calculating? It is just different that I can not tell exactly what its own computing, although it seems something like Delta volume might look. Could you advise? Well what generates the volume pubs?

[Kalman]

I am thinking that we ought to perhaps return to the basics of market structure.... Market Structure component #1: It takes two to tango Just like the tango, you need TWO participants to make 1 transaction (or tick). A person who buys and a person who sells. .... You poked the bear, so today I need to chime in.

I would like to start off by reiterating that for every buyer there's a seller, and for every seller there's a buyer. Anytime you hear statements like, The market went UP because there were far more buyers than sellers., or, The market went DOWN because there were more vendors than buyers., they are completely false. A transaction can not occur without a buyer and a seller. What goes the market is determined by the AGGRESSION of one side versus the other.

Let us take a closer look:

Suppose we've got a Market of a single car. We have a seller who's willing to sell the vehicle for $100,000. The ASK price, is consequently $100,000. We've got one buyer who's ready to buy the care for $50,000. The BID price, is consequently $50,000. Now in the real world, they may split the difference and settle on $75,000. But the vehicle must sell for $50,000 or $100,000. If neither party is ready to transact at the other's price, nothing occurs.

Now suppose that the buyer thinks that there are other buyers who are willing to pay the $100,000. In order to ensure that he gets the vehicle, he should take the ASK price of $100,000. This motivation, excitement, or AGGRESSION, will get the market to move until the seller's price.

Conversely, suppose that the seller has knowledge that there are other cars available the block down. In order to market his car before the buyer walks away and finds another vehicle, the seller should take the BID price of $50,000. This motivation, AGGRESSION, or fear of dropping out, will get the market to move to the buyer's price.

Thusthis market only goes when a single side, either the buyer or the seller, is AGGRESSIVE. That is true of all markets, only on a larger scale. AGGRESSION moves the Markets.

Here's a glance at the current EUR/USD on a 15 Min. chart. Not all A G G R E S S I O N BARS (aka STRUCTURES) are tagged, but all are colored.
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532471835124118.png
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532474744592454.png

[egoalfokso]

Hi HG,

interesting and Also thought provoking as always!

Are your aggression bars connected to speed of tape somehow?




quote You poked the bear, so I must chime in. I would like to begin by reiterating that for every buyer there's a seller, also for every seller there's a buyer. Anytime you hear statements such as, The market went UP since there were far more buyers than sellers., or, The market went DOWN since there were more vendors than buyers., they are completely untrue. A trade can't happen without both a buyer and a seller. What moves the market is determined by the AGGRESSION of one side versus another. Let us take a closer look:...

[pkcci]

You poked the bear, therefore now I must chime in. I would like to start off by reiterating that for every buyer there is a seller, also there is a buyer. Anytime you hear statements such as, The market went UP because there were more buyers than sellers., or, The market went DOWN because there were more vendors than buyers., they are totally false...} I hope YOU'RE not the bear!!

Well stated in your post. I especially like the idea of aggression but might love to bring that price will increase or fall when one side of the order flow choses NOT to take part or their order flow is absorbed. This may be a bit ahead of myself, however I would like to establish this early. IF one side of the order flow. . .lets say buyers are hitting on the ask. . .but price does NOT tick higher, that indies their buy orders absorbed, and are being matched. This is why it is important to understand your purpose clearly.

Price increases or fall after one side or the other constitutes or is absorbed. When viewing the orders come in, I have found that price will stay at the exact same stage as orders (at the market) come in till one side (lets say vendors ), move literally to zero. . .no more vendors left to select the party to buys. . .thus price will tick higher, attempting to entice sellers. And it'll continue to tick higher until vendors and buyers could be matched. One might say, there are more buyers than sellers because an overage of buying orders stays unfilled, but since you stated it's because the buyers are wanting to transact at the market (ask) and there is no one to take the other side of those trades. . .thus price increases.

The same is true of the other hand. . .if the buyers go to zero and dry up first. . .price will tick down, searching for much more buyers....This will segue perfectly into my next article. . .Dominance.

[pkcci]

quote Really? 1 willing seller(100000) and 5 prepared buyers. Who is going to be new owner? One who cover most, it's auction.it is not going to be match; it will exceed 100000....multiple provides, like in real estate. So can it be false statement: The market went UP since there were more buyers than sellers. ? In the time of trade will be just one buyer and one seller. This is my comprehension, I may be wrong. Not a false statement at all. . .HiddenGap's point is this...1 seller, 5 buyers. . .the buyer who's the FASTEST or the most aggressive gets the vehicle. He/she quickly completes the trade before the other buyers have a chance to bid. The seller takes the first one to think of the money.

Think of it like this. You would like to sell your vehicle. Of course you want the very best price. The 5 sellers bid to the price, but then don't have the money to transact. You're frued, because while people talk and bid there's not anything to back up the bid, in order to say, this is my price ($100,000), first one together with all the cash takes the vehicle. I know that should I wait more somebody else might come in using all the money...I will definitely understand the interest by the bidding. So my aggression in transacting, or my speed is rewarded. I buy the car and the other bidders start looking for another car to buy. . .and now they're ready to pay much more, AND will need to act aggressively to complete the transaction.

After this, do you think the second seller will provide $100,000? Most probably not. . .we will price higher. . .perhaps $110,000. . .and so it moves...
Buyers have established their willingness (or should I say despair ) to innovate, while the sellers sit and wait for their price to be met. Which side is dominating the market?

[Kalman]

Hi HG, interesting and also thought provoking as always! Are your aggression bars linked to pace of tape? quote Thanks for the kind words.

They incorporate many concepts: OrderFlow, Volatility, Velocity, Volume, Facilitation, Ease of Movement, Pace of Tape, Range, and Trend.

[fuckingblackboy]

DonPato, I discovered the indior on a different website and enjoy it. Sorry this is the indior.
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195324761474826178.mq4
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195324781139045634.ex4

[Gemeoxys]

To be more exact

Aggression is not very correct

Consider rather a match of Expectation usually followed by a Debacle

1) Sellers willing to pay lower prices because they expect the price to move reduced
2) Buyers prepared to pay higher prices because they expect the price to move higher

Now, this might be a surprise to some but:
1) Buyers going into the market do not transfer the price higher in an up trend
2) Sellers going into the market do not transfer the price lower in a down trend

The gas which keeps keeps price going higher and greater are the sellers who need to buy back their position at a loss (sellers are aggressively dropping: debacle)
The fuel which keeps keeps price moving lower and lower are the buyers who must sell back their position in a loss. (Buyers are aggressively dropping: debacle)


If you examine a price move down or up and before taking a position, then constantly think about this:
The price will always move in the direction which leads to the greatest financial damage to the largest number of accounts.

[espichu]

To be more exact Aggression is not quite correct Consider rather a match of Expectation usually followed by a Debacle 1) Sellers willing to pay lower prices since they anticipate the price to move lower two ) Buyers willing to pay higher prices because they anticipate the price to move higher Today, this may be a surprise to some but: 1) Buyers entering the market do not transfer the price higher in an up trend 2) Sellers entering the market do not transfer the price lower at a down trend The gas that keeps keeps price going higher and higher are the sellers... For the most part that is accurate!

The group of the losing traders would be the most important force behind most tendencies and it's the key for solving the market riddle. And this is particularly true for mean reverting-zero amount markets such as Forex.

It's funny that almost all losing traders desperately want to be familiar with egies of the winning traders. (They think there is some key ).
And yes, there is a secret!

If you would like to win, you have to research:
1. The behavior, the plogy, the actions and the egies of the LOSING traders.
2. The actions and the egies of the MARKET MAKERS.

The market manufacturers take money in the pool of losing traders.

Of course there are some exceptions. As an example during market bubbles and manias (seem BTC). Also on the stock markets we all could observe persistent long bias. The markets move up because most men and women buy, no matter what. The stock market creates economic development. On the opposing side, the ordinary market gain per year during bull markets is lt;10% while the average reduction during recession is gt;30%-40%. (Stress is stronger than greed)
Also bull markets can last several years, whereas recessions accompanied by market crashes often occur in weeks and even days.
This is the point where the phrases LONG and SHORT come from.

[enmiqwlsg]

quote You poked the bear, so I must chime in. I would like to start off by reiterating that for every buyer there's a seller, also for every seller there's a buyer. Anytime you hear statements such as, The market went UP because there were more buyers than sellers., or, The market went DOWN because there were more vendors than buyers., they're completely false. A trade can not occur with no buyer and a seller. What goes the market is determined by the AGGRESSION of one side versus the other. Let's have a closer look:... What HiddenGap has explained here is how a normal auction market will do the job. But in our markets we have the market maker who must take the other side of the transaction as they're paid to provide liquidity and quote the bid / offer spread so there will always be a seller to every buyer. They will take the other side of a buy trade by way of instance if they believe that price will go down. If they dont believe price will go down they will let the other market participants fill the order or they will pull their liquidity and start quoting higher prices.

What occurs is that the market maker senses that there are lots of aggressive buyers entering the market (they could observe the orders hitting their order book and who they are from) they understand that value is higher they won't wish to take the otherside of those orders because they will make a reduction so what they will do is pull their liquidity from the market and begin quoting at large prices hence shing price higher. Its the market maker who affects price.

The market maker makes money where there's high volume but it ought to be two way volume, when it becomes standardized that they pull liquidity.
This is the reason why markets range for the majority of the time and only trend once worth has shifted or if volume disappears and market makers pull away liquidity to the prior area of high volume close to where current worth is.


From the chart the black line is that the value lineup for the EUR. The market goes up on low vol from the first red box also assembles value higher, however when volume starts to drop down here the market makers will want to go looking for business again. As it went up on low volume they'll want to check the high volume area (POC) under the market again to see whether there's still two way business there.
As price goes down it does so on low volume they understand business has dried up. They will have accumulated a long novel as price goes down as they must take the other side of this transaction. If they wish to get rid of their buys they need to find sellers. To find vendors they need to take prices higher and as worth is above the market this is where they'll move price. Volume increases as it move up (green boxs) and this pattern repeats itself because we work through the chart.



https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532481306221420.png

[Sakugealh]

quote What HiddenGap has explained here is how a typical auction market would do the job. But in our markets we have the market maker who must take another side of the trade as they are paid to give liquidity and quote the bid / offer spread so there will always be a seller to each buyer. They will take another side of a buy trade by way of example should they believe that price will return. If they dont think price will return they will let another market participants fill out the order or else they will pull their liquidity and start quoting... would you please supply more illustrations based on that logic?

[enmiqwlsg]

quote would you please provide more illustrations based on that logic? Sure will you be more specific, not sure Just What you want an example of

[Sakugealh]

quote sure can you be more specific, not sure precisely what you want to have an example of I mean that you talked about the logic that MM brings out liquidity so markets shift off. Could you please provide examples of setups where you believe that type of activity took place?

[enmiqwlsg]

quote I mean you spoke about the logic that MM pulls away liquidity so markets shift away. Can you please give examples of setups in which you believe that type of action happened? Great instance on CL yesterday.
Price making lower lows everyone believing that the market will go lower. However two clues show that this is really a lengthy accumulation.
One is a slow mill down and just two the deltas are favorable.

The MMs have accumulated a very long novel, and will need to come across Sellers so they will need to take price to an area of liquidity. They'll come across sellers above previous swing top.
They pull bandwidth as you can observe in both red boxs from the green upward bars. See the way the market thins out to the sellside.

As soon it as struck they bandwidth region they offload their longs to the sellers. They do a nice two way company until the sellside quantity gets two large, and so they pull their liquidity to beneath the market and you can observe the buyside volume fades from the box.

If you dont have orderflow applications you can observe withdrawels of bandwidth in your charts with long bars on comparatively lower quantity for the magnitude of the bar.

The are just two reasons why MMs will withdraw their liquidity. Either there's an order imbalance that comes into the market and they dont need to be on the otherside of the trade or they're searching for liquidity and are attempting to run stops (GC is a great market to view stop runs)

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532484809827501.png

[enmiqwlsg]

Just to go back to this auction market process...

If a vendor comes in and see that 10 buyers stick their hands to buy it, then they are not going to sell at the price, he will pull off the price away until there is just one buyer he/she begins to get worried that other sellers will probably come in at that high price and he will miss his chance to eliminate his stock.

Think about it. You own a TV to market and you provide a price and get an overwhelming response, lots of individuals start clamouring to buy your TV. Are you going to let it go at that price? Whatever you will try to market it for a far higher price.

Same factor in the markets, the sellers won't quit price going up if they believe they can sell at a high price.

[Sakugealh]

Just to return to this auction market procedure... If a seller comes in and see 10 buyers stick up their hands to buy it, they aren't likely to sell at the price, he will pull the price away until there is only one buyer left or he starts to get worried that other sellers will probably come in at that high price and he will miss his chance to get rid of his stock. Consider it. You have a TV to sell and you offer a price and find an overwhelming response, lots of people start clamouring to buy your TV. Are you really going to let it go at that price? ... What you said and revealed until now is absolute logic and well clarified. You gave a new view about auction procedure but I would like to ask something it is crucial too. Lets say that this field of long accumulation was an area of a X market manufacturer who went long. Price now in CL went so everything is right. But I want your view/opinion and of course everyone's else on this particular threat.

Question:
MM purchased on this area price went up because?
A) He continue the buying and probably the pulling/spoofing of limits
b) He do not buy anymore (perhaps only absorbs any retail traders attempts to the short side) and lets the retail continue buying since technical analysis point up (moving averages etc. ).)

[pkcci]

Hello again Friends...I have really enjoyed reading the discussion that is present here. There are a few very seasoned traders chiming in and I appreciate your input very much. Today I want to talk about the next market construction component:

Market Structure Element #2: Order Flow Dominance
there's been a fantastic deal of discussion heretofore about what moves the market and I must say I agree with all of it. It's all true especially here in the spot FX market. However, lets start at the previous element: It takes two to tango.

We all know that there should be two sides to every trade we also know that participants whether markets makers or retail traders should participate in the same way. . .by putting orders. These orders are streaming into a machine called the market. The market's job is just to meet orders by price. This is where the quantity difference of opinion comes into play greatly. If one player passes an order for a market, that is larger in size (volume) than other participants around the other hand, their orders will be consumed like a sponge before the larger volume was matched. So lets say the price has dropped sufficient to attract a larger participant who wants to buy 100 lots (standard). So he wants 100 lots of vendors to step up to match his/her order. If these participants are smaller retail traders (let us say trading miniature lots), that's a LOT of selling this large trader can consume. We can recall that each trade produces a tick in the tick quantity. So tick quantity will rise. . .YET price won't react, because this one major order is still left handed...

Now lets assume there wasn't enough volume to fulfill that 100 lots buy order. . .what happens when no one else is prepared to step up and market? Price starts ticking higher. All those vendors that were consumed are now LOSING. The only way to halt the loss would be to input another order in the same direction (buy) as the larger quantity. . .this creates what I refer to as Dominance.

The buying orders continue to be incomplete and the machine matching orders (the market) is searching for sellers to finish out the over whelming dominance on a single side of the order flow. When it does not happen quickly, an increasing number of sellers will get out of their positions, and flooding the market with much more buying orders. This will create exactly what my mentor affectionately called, a whoosh of price movement in the direction of desire.

Recall the previous talks. . .aggression (individuals hitting the ask, or buying the market quote). What does a stop loss order do? When that price is triggered, it converts your order to a MARKET order. . .that means you get in the rear of the line with all the additional market orders and it will be filled as it comes your turn. Envision that price is moving quickly as it is searching for sellers and you just added even more buying to the buying dominant order flow. . .this is why your broker can't guarantee your discontinue...

So lets recap: Order flow is always streaming into the market being matched as opposing orders what consent on price. Larger lot size could consume smaller lot size (volume) and consequently stall price or even reverse it. Dominance is recognized when one side of the order flow remains unfilled and the market ticks in the direction of the negative waiting to be filled. This dominance makes a cascade of similar orders as smaller (or weaker positions) leave the market using stop (or market) orders. So from a tick quantity point of view. . .lots and lots of transactions are happening creating an increase in the tick quantity amount, indiing dominance was established on either side of the market.

In terms of Liquidity I think of it like this. The Liquidity of a market are literally orders from big institutions, that are set at specific price levels. If those orders are in place, they'll absorb all opposing new market orders (at the level) before the liquidity is consumed. After the market makers transfer their orders or cancel them (frequently seen in the news events), the market becomes volatile because there are a surplus of orders streaming into the market from one side, and cannot be filled. That is why the spreads widen because the market makers are reluctant to risk their capital until the quantity calms down.

[pkcci]

, I found the indior on a different site and enjoy it. But I really don't know about the calculation, this is your indior. file file OK...I looked at this document, but do not really understand what it's calculating. I am NOT a programmer although I did some mq4 return in the days that I believed I could make a robot think like that I did....

Any of you coders out there. . .can you tell me what this is calculating?

[lani3096]

I flipped trough that LRA publication and discovered that a major problem with the assumption of this writer's methodology. The author supposes that trading of futures is handled through market manufacturers. In the old days it was the circumstance. However, in the world today the primary manner for futures trading is direct electronic routing of orders to the central exchange. When a trader places a buy order, that buy order is delivered directly into the central market at CME or NYMEX and can be matched to a market order from a different trader through auctioning performed by computer based on FIFO principle. Those huge banks no longer do much market earning for futures trades, though they nevertheless act as market makers for spot Foreign Exchange transaction.

[Sakugealh]

I flipped trough that LRA book and discovered a major problem with the premise of this writer's methodology. The writer assumes that trading of futures contract is handled through market manufacturers. It was the case. Nonetheless, in the world today the primary mode for futures trading would be direct digital routing of orders into the central trade. When a trader places a buy order, that buy order is delivered directly into the central market at CME or NYMEX and is matched to a sell order from another trader through auctioning done by computer based on FIFO...
In forums individuals say that in markets like ES and FX Futures there are not Market Manufacturers, as they're a lot of individuals who biding or offering. Corn and many others in-liquid markets have MM in CME.

My personal opinion after what we've seen a lot of instances,the DOM before a big news release before a surprising movement, 1-2 sec before motion, DOM will loose up to 70% of its volume. Suddenly you see just for few moments the true liquidity supplied buy people like you and me, you will see the big space of the limit order will have. The main reason for me that in markets like Futures and SpotFx we can only press a button and take a contract nearly immediately (even with some minor slippage we yelling several occasions as retails) is since MM fill the DOM with their contracts. So even they're not recorded inside CME as it was in older times, MM continue doing business. And we've got two points to that, first we still have big fraud cases together with manipulation of markets by big banks like UBS that is a MM. Secondly all those corporations have always their servers/systems as near as you can to the central engines of the markets (example Globex).

Again personal opinion.

[cpm23]

quote In forums people state that in markets such as ES and FX Futures there aren't Market Makers, since they're a lot of people who biding or offering. Corn and many others in-liquid markets have MM in CME. My opinion after what we have seen a lot of times,the DOM prior to a news release or before a surprising movement, 1-2 sec before movement, DOM will loose up to 70% of its quantity. Suddenly you see only for few moments the liquidity provided buy people like me and you, you will realize the major space of our limit order is going to have. The motive... Every market in CME has MMs indoors, also ES. Don't fret about them as they are helping you get spreads and fills. They market liquidity in volumes. You should not worry about it, deltas although what you see in DOM is beefed quantity up, quantity rates are still accurate as most of MM rankings are hedged. Watch the TS and see just how many basis contracts bid and ask are not implemented against each other.

[pomlalsanviweb]

Hello again Friends.... long story short in summary by chicago board of trade in research manual to market profile:

. . .All market action occurs within this extensive framework-with that the
market moving up to shut off buying and down to shut off selling...

[pkcci]

Hi,

I thought I'd show you my thinking process onto some thing that I am going to stand down. Again, USD/CAD. After price broke during the 8 week range, I am expecting another run to test this range, and true to form an absorption candle has shaped on Friday. Here's the screen shot.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532408975454440.png
Here is what I am seeing: I see a rest of the range, on increasing volume. . .it is at the level in which it may be considered orgasm volume, however. . .eh!! Subsequently yesterday's candle that reveals volume, and completed higher. AND, it neglected to close below the low of the candle.

Here is what I am NOT seeing: No fatigue phase. That phase that's quite difficult to define, particularly here with tick volume is known by you. But, I define it as: price continues to move in the direction of dominance but on less and less volume. I really don't find this here. Well, the heretofore mentioned orgasm volume is what I'd consider very borderline rather than convincing.

I guess the absorption period occurred only because this was the final trading day of 2017, and most were booking profits with this previous move down to close the year out. I will wait till after the new year and reevaluate this decision. For today this is a Stand apart decision....tell me what you think?

[anais.zu]

From a fundamental point of view -this is where we're at now
Looking forward its a mixed image.
CAD: Possibly oil might start coming off (pipelines being mended ). (Though inventory draws quite high at the moment)
USD: NFP quotes - lower on jobs and a bit higher on wages
The minutes will be significant. They were dovish the time, although the tone appeared optimistic - although not actually about inflation.

Not actually the best narrative to go long on. But on Tuesday traders will be looking at an oversold UC- rebounding off support using a pin bar

All this is on the back of poor recent prints from the dollar and strong prints from the CAD during the previous 10 days.

Anyhow happy New Year
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195324101534415612.png

[cmaylmcab]

[Edit] Nice thread talking volume.

- Normally after a group lower volumes followed by a Form of Ascending Higher Volume, it build up toward a management.
*Look in blue arrows at price and volume

- Rectangle box in 1.24~1.26, are set of curiosity where I call it demand and supply, as price management may decide here. Therefore it fly and may break either side.

- White square-foot are typical pattern of a 1st phase of top or bottom deciding phase. Outside the box are of continuing the management phase.
*Look at white square box

- December Economic info was much better for Cad than USD, therefore this bearish trend will probably be temporarily.
*Establish December calendar and have a look

Personal opinion bullish but will wait to get lower to enter, as current price I'm not convince as 2nd bottom on Daily chart, but new beginning of the calendar year 2018, I anticipate ranging.
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195324131251275341.png

[cuxxilamifomex]

Hello allI thought I'd show you all my thinking process on something which I am likely to Stand down. Again, USD/CAD. After price broke during the week range, I am expecting another run to test that range, and true to form an absorption candle has formed on Friday. Here is the screen shot. image Here is what I am seeing: I visit a rest of the range, on increasing volume. . .it is right at the level in which it may be considered orgasm volume. . .eh!! Subsequently yesterday's candle which reveals increasing volume, and finished higher. AND, it neglected... I enjoy your thread, I've been a price volume enthusiast for quite a couple of years now and beginning to find some mind blowing results.

What Iv'e found helps me comprehend price and volume would be to judge who is doing what, I tend to class PA now as pro activity or feeble holders and the distinction between both camps is pro's understand orderflow and feeble traders do not.

Anyway so in your chart the wh's would have bought the supp and after that they where stopped out on the BO bar (next to last bar)which included strength to the downward movement - break out (broad down bar) and giving it the impression of a solid break south. And we need to notice out the break south would have brought in hands promoting out the break thinking it to be a strong move south due to the buyers now being stopped out. So now we've got feeble hands opening positions but as you have pointed on the last bar volume has increased and price has closed - up - a bar. Volume signifies activity that is pro and as they are open short then what is actually happening here is we are seeing pro profit taking along with the hand BO sellers are on the side of the order flow.

[pkcci]

Hello Everybody...I hope you have a very happy and safe New Year's party. I've spent the holidays in productive mode. I've decided a couple of definitions and criteria I will use to check my afore. I have two transactions in the information base and will add.

As well I thought I would talk about a screen shot of a transaction I'm stalking at present. AUD/USD (searching for a short).
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195324161462165320.png
As you can see here price has moved into a place I would expect to find some response and perhaps some promoting or profit taking. Yesterday's trading brought about some climax buying in the tick action. Now's tick action is less, yet price continues moving greater. We're currently sitting at yesterday's high and I expect we might close there or a bit greater. Assuming this is the case we might have the case for an fatigue candle. I will not understand until it closes and I can observe the tick count.

If not I will wait to see what happens in the next few days, especially tomorrow.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532396.png
Considering that the majority of the retail market (as assessed here on FF) is short now, I expect there might be another climax up until a fantastic signal appears. That'll be all of these trading and and possibly even turning bullish, as price breaks out

[sanlangsag]

Yet another instance. . .this time in forex: image even with no special coding to shade the bars, you may observe the tick quantity drops off dramatically even as price reaches new highs. . .same can be stated for the lows. . .new lows. . .yet clearly NO volume. (momentum? , churning? , grinding?) NO! Exhaustion Exactly.

As Tom DeMark says markets do not turn higher in a bottom due to buying but not as selling. Same but in reverse at shirts.

[pkcci]

Exactly. As Tom DeMark says markets do not turn higher at a base because of buying but less selling. Same but in reverse at tops. Not just that. . .but generally the climax volume pushing on price upward and out ofthe hole is a wave of shorts exiting stopping out or accepting profit. The question is, who is selling to those buyers? I try NOT to be one of those participants.

[sanlangsag]

quote Not only that. . .but usually the orgasm volume pushing on price upward and outside ofthe hole is a tide of shorts exiting either quitting out or taking profit. The question would be, who's selling to these buyers? I try NOT to become among these participants. Yes but that is... after the selling finishes. The heavy economy.

[lwsye1962]

Hi Don
What publication is ideal to below volume in fx? I am a complete newbie. Never created a trade but I believe volume and price would be the way.
I am also searching for a mentor when anybody is interested.

[ShagowShaoman]

Hi Don, I hope my explanation is right about the phases in the attached picture?
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195324181650308438.png

[pomlalsanviweb]

chart and volume in my chart are different then https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/trading-discussion/75-helpful-traders.html
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532423304109745.png

[pkcci]

chart and quantity in my chart are distinct then https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/trading-discussion/84-euro-1-15-a.html image Hi again Waldo. . .it appears like you are using mt4 is correct? Try using the quantity indior in that platform. I've found it is simpler to read and lets you place a moving average on the quantity (for comparison). Just color all the bars the exact same to avoid confusion with bullish or bearish.

[pkcci]

Hi Don, I hope that my explanation is right about the phases in the attached picture? I think I understand, however I'd call the 3 candle jog up to your climax bar the exhaustion phase. I am a little cautious of the setup because the absorption candle (yes I think you interpreted that correctly) happened after the order flow balanced for two days. Maybe it was the holidays or something different but I am not seeing the vendors come in on the candle (open candle) and if you get a close up where it's now I think price will continue greater. Only my opinion... I don't exchange this market (aud/jpy) so I am unfamiliar with it is quirps

[pkcci]

Update in my stalking...
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195324271312887464.png
This days price reaction and tick action did not meet the requirements for fatigue phase. This is a stand down for now. . .unless I see something tomorrow that makes me sit up and take notice.

Unfortunately this is the nature of trading. You see something and need to trade SOMEthing but need to wait until it looks.

[pkcci]

Hi Don What publication is best to under volume in fx? I'm a complete newbie. Never created a trade but I believe volume and price are the way. I'm also looking for a mentor if anybody is interested. You can start using Time Compression Trading from Jason Alan Jankowski. Https://www.amazon.com/Time-Compression-Trading-Exploiting-Multiple/dp/0470564946/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8qid=1515026203sr=8-3keywords=jason alan jankovsky

At the conclusion of the book he listed a telephone number (do not know whether its still good) and I called him and he mentored me for around a year. It had been paid every penny. This guy who had been busy here on FF is a personal friend. https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/trading-system-and-egies/103-jags-journal.html

Hope that helps. I am also available to chat online but please contact me. People here have a dim view of us assisting others.

[bahayblanca]

quote You Can Begin Using Time Compression Trading by Jason Alan Jankowski. Https://www.amazon.com/Time-Compression-Trading-Exploiting-Multiple/dp/0470564946/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8qid=1515026203sr=8-3keywords=jason alan jankovsky In the conclusion of the book he recorded a telephone number (do not know if its still good) and I called him and he mentored me for around a year. It had been paid but worth every cent. This man who had been active here is a friend. Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/trading-discussion/89-walk.html... #Linkers::XHello World;

Servers Revenge - The Way To Turn $200 to $100k in one month

[pkcci]

quote #Linkers::XHello World; Servers Revenge - How To Turn $200 to $100k in one month HUH??!!

[ShagowShaoman]

quote I think I know, however I would call the 3 candle jog up to your climax bar the exhaustion stage. I am a bit cautious of the setup because the absorption candle (yes I think you interpreted that correctly) occurred after the order flow balanced for two days. Maybe it was the holidays or something else but I am not seeing the sellers come in on the candle (open candle) and if you get a close up where it is now I think price will continue greater. Just my opinion... I don't trade this market (aud/jpy) so I'm unfamiliar with...
Thanks Don for the answer and the insight. I'll keep learning how quantity and price relate in FX.

[pkcci]

Thanks Don for the Answer and the Penetration. I'll keep learning how quantity and price relate in FX. I was just checking this market this morning. Looks like price broke higher as anticipated.

[pkcci]

New trade, Short - GBP/USD
Lets see how it goes?
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195323581136227434.png

[Camoxnayco]

For what its worth:

I've read the following way to consider volume will be equate it to attention. As Ticks begin ticking like a tap er that will raise the curiosity (volume) bar, and visa-versa.

By the way anyone know where I could find a complimentary Volume at Price indior (VAP)?
I maybe affordable, but I think I am in good company.

[pkcci]

... By the way anybody know where I could find a free Volume at Price indior (VAP)? I affordable, but I believe I am in good company. I have found this site extremely helpful. It is the nearest thing to order flow I have seen in retail FX;. https://www.oanda.com/forex-trading/analysis/forex-order-book

[lani3096]

quote I have found this site extremely valuable. It is the closest thing to order flow I have seen in retail FX;. Https://www.oanda.com/forex-trading/analysis/forex-order-book Thanks for the information. You only have to be careful about one thing: these are info on Oanda's retail clients, which have no effect on price.

[Camoxnayco]

quote I've found this website extremely helpful. It's the nearest thing to real order flow I've observed in retail FX;. Https://www.oanda.com/forex-trading/analysis/forex-order-book Due

[pomlalsanviweb]

.. .By how anyone know where I can find a free Volume at Price indior (VAP)? I affordable, but I believe I am in good company. In this thread you might find what you're searching for. Search for those who want...

[Camoxnayco]

quote in this thread you might find what you're searching for. Search for those who want... Thanks

[pkcci]

A quick update on the GBP/USD - Short:
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195323631563451628.png
NFP didn't fulfill the pending order (that kind of surprised me). Low volatility at (or near a shirt ) often means there is just no additional order flow to push items greater...I went ahead and entered a smaller place short in the end of the day and we'll see how this goes this week.

[oxjamiegojuanju]

Focus on volume, you will be rewarded. Any volume indior that you have for MT4 that you can share? Please ?

[mamokovo]

quote Any quantity indior that you have to get MT4 that you can share? Please ?
Mt4 it self has quantity indior it's okey.

[pkcci]

Something of interest I have been celebrating with more clarity lately. The three phases that I carry on to mention do not have to be in any particular order. And it does not seem to matter that time period you see as it seems to be legitimate on all time frames.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195323652056528663.png
Something that's playing out right now is of fantastic interest to me personally. Yes its a chart and yes whether this is true, it'll take probably at least two weeks to find out. . .so what? If I am right, this formation should produce a bearish bias with this pair until the upcoming swing stage forms.

[pomlalsanviweb]

Something of interest.... If I were you I'd consider your next orgasm bar and absorption . It is clear that on second orgasm bar there is presence of sellers trying to have upper hand...

[pkcci]

quote when I were you I would consider your second orgasm bar and absorption as absorption. It is apparent that on second orgasm bar there is existence of vendors trying to have upper hand... It looks obvious in retrospect but that second orgasm bar does not always shape like this and it does not fit my definition of this fatigue. That being ... rising on less quantity. This bar had quantity. And the swing stage hadn't yet formed. That formed on another candle.

[sanlangsag]

Assume you are also aware of previous swing low support turned to resistance and 2 fib retracement levels:
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195323672135379524.png

[pkcci]

Assume you are also aware of previous swing low support turned to resistance and 2 fib retracement levels: I was (am) and for my way of believing it merely adds more evidence of a bearish bias. However long gone are the days where I put an order at these amounts and hope price increases. I would rather expect the changes in order flow then watch it happen then take action. My point for this post was for me to see the stages of fatigue and be in a position to action based on actual order flow and not some imaginary line.

[sanlangsag]

quote I was (am) and for my way of thinking it only adds more signs of a bearish bias. However long gone are the days where I place an order at those levels and then hope price will turn. I prefer to expect the changes in order flow then watch it happen then take action. My purpose for this article was for me to observe the phases of fatigue and be in a position to action based more on order flow and not some imaginary line in space. Know I take it you do not care for fibs (not me) but I hope you do not consider support turned to resistance also some imaginary line in space?

[cmaylmcab]

Something of interest that I have been celebrating with more clarity recently. The 3 phases that I continue to cite do not need to be in any particular order. And it doesn't seem to matter which time frame you watch as it seems to be valid on all time frames. image Something that's playing out right now is of great interest to me. Yes its a chart and yes it will take to find out if this is accurate. . .so what? If I am right, this creation should produce a bearish bias on this pair until the upcoming monthly swing stage... Bro, by what I read about VSA, Absorption in a down pub after an upward bar imply strength, therefore it pertains to bullish scenario. You can search on it. But below one of the link.

http://superchargewyckoffvsa.com/how-to-identify-absorption-volume-on-a-price-chart/

[pkcci]

quote Understand I take it you do not care for fibs (not me) but I hope you do not believe support turned into resistance too some imaginary line in space? Forgive me. . .no crime meant. I'm not a major fan of fibs. . .but neither am I a supporter of support/resistance. It is order flow which produces these areas and order flow which breaks them. I am weary of the just place your order here in support (or resistance) school of thought. IF these place are legitimate I shall see it as a change in the order flow. . .and if the are NOT legitimate the order flow will burst right through. Either way I will know when and when NOT to engage.

Anything else is just after the fact gee whiz look at which it turned... Imaginary traces outside in space.

[cmaylmcab]

One thing of interest that I have been observing with more clarity recently. The three phases that I continue to mention do not need to maintain any particular order. And it doesn't appear to matter that time period you watch as it appears to be valid on all time frames. picture Something that's playing out right now is of wonderful interest to me personally. Yes its a chart and yes it will take probably at least 2 months to find out whether this is true. . .so what? If I'm right, this creation should produce a bearish bias on this pair until the next monthly swing point... 1 of those 2 green bars that you marked may signal a bear.
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532370185350153.png

[oxmygulangme]

quote Any quantity indior which you have to get MT4 which you can share? Please ?
This one works for me

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195322951023009972.mq4

[sanlangsag]

quote Forgive me.. .no offense meant. I'm not a fan of fibs. . .but neither am I a huge supporter of all support/resistance. It's order flow that produces these areas and order flow that breaks them. I am weary of the only place your order here in support (or resistance) school of thought. IF these area are valid I shall see it as a change in the order flow. . .and if the are NOT valid the order flow will blast right through. Either way I will know when and when NOT to participate. Anything else is only after the fact gee whiz look at which it turned.... Your forgiven. C ya.

[pkcci]

Update on the GBP/USD - brief:
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532298311544657.png
This transaction is beginning to work, but selling still hasn't pushed through the buying area yet (service ). Tick activity isn't indiing bearish strength, but there's appears to be a lack of buying interest. Thus this drop in prices appears more lack of demand than new supply.

[UnlilLheEng]

Don, interesting thread, as retail traders we only get to see volume our brokers supply. But on the time frames, I concur, a relevant picture of
trades and trade amounts of interest by those moving much more than those of us(most anyways) at this dollar level. Volume at price
is something I've been also keen on, several companies such as Sierra provide this perspective, by way of example, I've one of my accts via ninjatrader
(using a forex.com feed) therefore it could show me vol (bottom of the chart in blue, and volume zones, basically vol at price. Thought this may assist in
looking at the larger picture.
regards,

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532300913522020.png

[pkcci]

Don, interesting thread, as retail traders we only get to see volume our brokers provide. Yet, on the time frames, I concur, a relevant snapshot of transactions and trade amounts of interest from those moving much more $ than those of us(most anyways) at the dollar amount. Volume at price is something I have been also excited about, several companies like Sierra provide this view, by way of instance, I have one of my own accts via ninjatrader (using a forex.com feed) so it could show me vol (bottom of this chart in blue, along with volume zones, basically vol... I'd love to find something like your oanda trading platform, but instead nothing is forth coming. I know that oanda offers MT4 but I am not fond of the platform. I favor more meaningful and simpler hands-on approach to evaluating the markets. I concur that volume at price would be rather valuable. I would love to study it more...

[pkcci]

Yet another trade I'm tracking and about to trigger an entrance. NZD/USD-Short:
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195323021034991687.png
appears like that price has come in to a place of resistance (for lack of better term) and is exhausting in to this area. I'm a little caution of the trade as we're right in the middle of a range, seen on the chart. We will just have to see what happens . . .If I'm wrong, and IF price does exactly what it typically does in a range, I'll get blown out in a couple of days with this trade as price rockets higher. If I'm NOT incorrect, we will retest the bottom of the range again.

[pkcci]

Update on NZD/USD - brief:
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195323041904255998.png
price looks like it needs to leap higher as I emphasized originally. My stop has moved down and seems like I might stop out tomorrow if not later today. If price closes I will hold the position to tomorrow, however if price closes above the large, I'm out with a reduction. Maybe I should make a rule about it. . .as together with my futures trading. . .don't engage in the middle of a range.

[pkcci]

Another Short I simply found on Gold...I use another broker for this commodities. . .have to go off shore. . .THANKS NFA!
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532306844265191.png
I could be jumping the gun just by one hour or so, but that looks like it may work out okay. After a rise from December, I guess a pull is more than due. We are also close to the top of a far bigger range, found on the chart.

[pkcci]

NZD/USD - short coated.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532308651485616.png
Today's price reaction generated what I would describe as a break of the past two day range with accompanying orgasm amount volume, so I've closed the commerce with a bit more than the usual 22 pip loss. I guess you can not win them all.

[pkcci]

On the other hand. . .GBP/USD - short is beginning to show some progress.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195323101973679231.png
While there still hasn't yet been retest of the latest high the current price response has closed in the area where buying was dominant within the past 6 days. And this with climax level tick action suggests down side. I will leave the pending order until the close of the week in place. Take profit has been set for pips. (3xR)

[oxjamiegojuanju]

quote This one works for me Document Thank you Sir

[luiswebp]

quote I utilize absorption and mini-absorption as the final cause in my trading... really high% of trades will probably hit BE, many trades will probably earn high RR profits, and few trades will probably hit first SL. Busy family, with holiday, travel, but if you need to explore farther we can talk. The following signals were programmed to sierra chart using similar logic to what you explained. Best, N picture Hey Nik, would you mind posting the code you use in sierra charts to get those signals. I am curious and would love to back test the outcomes. Thanks!

[xisoxzo]

quote Hey Nik, do you mind posting the code you use from sierra charts to find those signals. I am curious and would like to back test the outcomes. Thanks! Will PM you... let's keep DonPato's ribbon clean.

[pkcci]

Hello friends. . .its been awhile since I posted here. . .sorry for the lapse. . .its been difficult with family commnts along with troubles. But I've been able to do some (what I consider) significant improvements in thinking and that I think I may have found a means to measure some kind of extrapolated delta for use in my quantity research that I think has potential to be a great tool for trading spot Currency Market.

Nevertheless...I am NOT a coder and at this stage of the game I don't have any time to attempt to learn. Is there anybody out? I would dearly love someone who codes C Sharp (C#) or perhaps mq5. If you would like to offer to help out please pm me. Of course I am willing compensate a reasonable amount for your work.

Thanks

[pkcci]

Hello friends. . .its been awhile since I posted here. . .sorry for the lapse. . .its been hard with family commnts along with other issues. But I've been in a position to do some (what I believe ) significant improvements in thinking and that I think I may have discovered a way to quantify some form of extrapolated delta for use in my volume studies that I think has potential to be a great tool for trading spot forex. However...I am NOT a coder and in this stage of the sport I don't have any time to try and learn. Is there anybody out? I'd dearly... ANYONE??

[ShagowShaoman]

Hi friends. . .its been awhile since I posted here. . .sorry for the lapse. . .its been difficult with family commnts and other troubles. However, I have been able to perform some (what I believe ) significant improvements in thinking and I believe I may have found a means to measure some kind of extrapolated delta for usage in my volume research that I believe has potential to be a great tool for trading spot forex. However...I am NOT a coder and at this stage of the sport I have NO time to try and learn. Is there anybody out there which can help out? I would dearly...
Sorry, DonP I would have loved to help but I am not a coder. If anybody is a C Sharp Coder please and have time, help us out. This ribbon is great. Don't let it die!

[pkcci]

quote Sorry, DonP I would have loved to help but I am not a coder. If anybody is a C Sharp Coder please and also have spare time, then help out us. This thread is great. Do not let it die! Sent you a pm. . .thanks for your service...I hope this does not prove for a group of people that are delighted to obtain somewhat but begrudged to provide a little. . .we'll see.

[pkcci]

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195323121638938679.png
Here is what I am working on. I have completed the calculations with Excel and can graph them but putting them together with price action is a pain and I am not able to get this to line up perfectly. . .however...

Consider how the delta volume differs entirely from only tick volume. Again this is extrapolated, and I want to study it would really need a developer to help out...I'm sure for a coder, it might be done in a few hours. I'm doing this by hand on

[Jomge113]

quote Sent you a while. . .thanks for your support...I really hope this doesn't turn out for a group of people who are happy to obtain a little but begrudged to give a little. . .we'll see. DonPato,

I feel if we start a separate thread in the Platform Tech sectionwe can observe some grip with respect to the coding aid.

Thanks

[pkcci]

quote, I feel if we open a separate thread in the Platform Tech sectionwe could observe some grip connected to the coding aid. Thanks Thanks for the idea... been there. . .done that:. https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/trading-system-and-egies/97-harmonic-wave-journal.html

[oxmlinjuanfc]

image This is precisely what I am working on. I have completed the calculations with Excel and can graph them putting them together with price action is a pain and I am unable to find this to line up. . .however... Consider the way in which the delta volume differs completely from just tick volume. Again this is extrapolated, and I want to study it more and would really require a programmer to assist...I'm positive for a coder, it might be achieved in a couple of hours. I am doing this by hand on just EUR/USD Hey Don,

Long time.

Question:
This Volume Delta indior you want programmed, is that an effort to see when larger orders (ie. 5 100 lots larger orders versus 100 5 lots small orders) are coming through?

Additionally where are you getting your actual volume numbers out of, CME? Why not compare CME Vol into CME tick?

Appears like you are headed in the right direction however, you might be going off course with this volume item.

[pkcci]

quote Hey Don, Long time. Query: This Volume Delta indior you would like programmed, is this an attempt to observe if bigger orders (ie. 5 100 lots bigger orders vs 100 5 lots small orders) are coming through? Where are you really getting your actual volume numbers from? Why don't you just compare CME Vol to CME tick? Looks as if you are headed in the right direction however, you might be going off course with this quantity item. That I might be, but I have to chase this rabbit down the hole until I come to the dead end. . .perhaps this is it take me long to learn something new!!

I am seeing a pattern at the spot prices that directly influences my upcoming trading and that I believe I can use that to my advantage. Using futures works OK, but I believe it is challenging to be going forth and back between platforms trying to correlate because they do in spot movements which often do not look exactly the same. I think the use of this very simple indior (since I tried to show above) will work wonders and allow me to identify inflection and swing points since they're occurring.

This information is valuable to me personally since it lets me know the big question. . .WHEN. Order size data (at least on my platform) is unavailable to me but using Volume delta (even if its tick volume) enables me to visualize this pattern more clearly, also keeps me on the right side of this market more often.

Hope you and yours are well and your trading is doing well.

[pomlalsanviweb]

quote I could be,...I think that the usage of the very simple indior (since I tried to show above) will work wonders and allow me to identify inflection and swing factors since they are occurring. This information is valuable to me since it allows me know the big question. . .WHEN. . . .allows me to picture that pattern more clearly, and keeps me on the right side of the market more often. .... Hi Don,
Did you attempt Market facilitation Index/Bill Willi indior built-in MT4/5? You are being told by 2 signals over there when and for swing. You can google for more info /description of signals. . .what pattern are you talking about? Do you want to show it on chart?

[pkcci]

quote Hi Don, Did you attempt Market facilitation Index/Bill Willi indior built in MT4/5? 2 signs over there's telling you for swing and when. You can google for more information /description of signs. . .what pattern are you speaking about? Do you wish to show it on chart? I have been showing them over and over again... climax, fatigue, absorption. . .look in my chart. As I mentioned at the start I knew this is a challenge using tick quantity but it's well worth it if I can figure it out.

Bill Willi' indiors like all the other stuff out there's lagging. . .as it only could. You don't really think they would put something profitable on a software platform do you?

Volume order flow and price are the only real time information components that operate. I am only trying to fill a gaping hole in spot data that doesn't offer actual quantity. I have to extrapolate it. . .but I think it can be done with relative accuracy on big charts such as daily, weekly charts... anything bigger and also you want real information to use.

[Almengmy]

I found something in the industrial area
Can it be what your looking for? : https://www.mql5.com/en/market/product/12053#

[pkcci]

I found something in the commercial area Is it what your looking for? : https://www.mql5.com/en/market/product/12053# Something similar to that...https://www.mql5.com/en/market/product/11658

I tried to download this and it did not work.

[bammmm]

Thanks for this thread

[pkcci]

Thank you for this usefull thread I hope you'll find value .

[pkcci]

Hello All.. .lack of conversation on the thread, so I thought I'd show one of these futures transactions from the past couple of days. I think these may also help illue exactly what it is I'm trying to accomplish here on the spot fx side.

You will see notes I made to myself in the end of every day's trading to help me keep tabs on my execution. The indior in the base of these charts is what I am trying to replicate here on spot fx
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532211278439930.png
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195322131256045708.png
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532216317939398.png
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195322181020839414.png

[fuckingblackboy]

Greetings Don, I've been keeping up with your ribbon daily.
Have you checked out this volume indior? Sounds intriguing.
It seems to coincide with Climax Absorption and Exhaustion.
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532220135862644.ex4
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195322221862663632.mq4

[pkcci]

Greetings Don, I have been keeping up with your thread daily. Have you checked out this volume indior? Sounds intriguing. It seems to coincide with Exhaustion and Climax Absorption. file file I'm out of the computer but will try this evening... thanks

[pkcci]

quote I am out of the computer but will try it this evening... thanks We have a winner!!
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195322252144515746.png
This seems to be plotting the quantity delta in the exact same manner I was calculating it in my spreadsheet. I've added a bollinger band to help identify climax though it ought to be rather obvious. I think with this I will continue my observations and keep moving forward and that I understand its being phased out, although I am not a lover of MT4.

Thank you Darryl very kindly for bringing this to my attention

[UnlilLheEng]

Hi Don, the chart above I see is somewhat like a broker I used to have the ability to trade with here in the US (fxcm). I can still utilize their graphs but no transactions since early last year.
That's a subject for another thread. But, their charts (not M4) showed the choice of tic vol in the bottom, plus a buy vol vs sell vol if you desired. It was
that particular broker's vol on the retail level, so just a tiny portion of the forex mkt. I found on the higher time frames it more closely coincided with real price,
but for swing transactions and scalps esp., you're more at the mercy of news along with your market manufacturer.
Not attempting to dissuade you by the volume search/discussion, I really do believe you are able to use it like an edge, but as an exercise, try the next, post your graphs, monthly on down, with no indiors and make them line (ending of interval price) graphs. Below are eurusd I've been following/trading. The horizontal blue lines I drew in
as my view on where most of the trading occurs, the 1.240 amount being roughly the principal attraction. It down looks to me that the 1.2415 high and 1.2385 low would be the
short expression ranges.
Nest post has the very same graphs with tic vol below and vol at price to the left.
regards

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532227618296088.png
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195322291033924447.png
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195322321439157215.png

[UnlilLheEng]

Here are the same kinds with vol at price and tic vol....
They are not too far off, I could be wrong about where I put the blue lines, but as a general rule beginning with the higher time frames seems to
help narrow down it zones to exchange or avoid. I've been using the vol indiors as more of a confirmation as opposed to a trade indior. I've seen
a number of the other threads (PVSRA specifically ) often seem to use tic vol spikes as a way to quickly jump in or at least be ready to make a move.
Anyways, food for thought. Continue the good job,
regards,

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532234735879544.png
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195322361844240897.png
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532239629258144.png

[UnlilLheEng]

posted exactly the exact same monthly twice
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532241437586225.png

[UnlilLheEng]

yet another time
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195322431727921317.png

[pkcci]

I see what you're getting at, and the volume levels are extremely helpful. I used to be with FXCM but got haven't returned and burned. What I am trying to accomplish here. . .and I believe I am really close. Would be to duplie (as close as possible) to the futures transactions I showed you. In that indior you find that the delta quantity of (real ) buyers and sellers action live as it comes across the market. If one side or the other becomes dominant it is fairly clear in both price action and quantity.

Additionally, when both sides are balanced, you find that the exact tiny pubs (about the indior) telling you the buying and selling are almost balance but one side or the other has a slight dominance, but one which might be readily overcome with large opposing quantity. Finally, you may see the anomalous volumes. . .those volumes where although buying was the dominating volume, the candle ended bearish (and vise versa). These are absorption areas which tops or a heads up on the next degree of resistance/support.

I understand that without true quantity those anomalous candles will never show up in the spot Foreign Exchange, however that does not mean this exact same phenomenon isn't happening. . .we simply can't spot it. But, we can see how price reacts and extrapolate. Again, DELTA is what is left after everything cancels out...

For instance, if there are 300 lots of buying, and 400 lots of selling, the delta is 100 lots selling. (400-300 = 100). This assumes a 1:1 ratio of buying and selling, which isn't necessarily the case but it's the structure of the market. If a single order is larger than another, the market fills what it could and the residual is left unfilled, and the market warms up (or down) in an effort to fill the rest. So if all of the buyers cancel out all the sellers, there would be a delta of ZERO. . .this almost never occurs. The remaining , unfilled orders on the market, will always cause the market to sign up (or down). So by watching this flow (literally the order flow), we could determine which side is exhausting and ready to stop. . .this usually contributes to a shift in the order flow from dominance to equilibrium for a while. Then the equilibrium will turn to dominance again, based upon which side dominates the flow. We can get an early heads up on that when we observe where once side exhausts and is then absorbed (causing price action to discontinue ). . .this occurs BEFORE the side overlooks the order flow. . .in other words...a swing point is formed and you have automatic confirmation of the swing point, by the order flow.

No more waiting to confirm with price action and have a stop that is 300 pips away...I exchange the daily chart with 25-75 pips stops and am looking for anywhere from 300-600 pips. . .the same as I do using futures. Well. . .the futures stops are a tighter. . .11 ticks looking for 31 ticks profit, but you get the picture...I hope.

[pkcci]

Hello again friends...I was talking to a buddy and we had been comparing platforms while I was telling him about using the indior Darryl sent us. Yesterday I was enthused about it, I'm not so sure now. While the indior does work as designed, I'm concerned about the data it is using...

This has always been an issue from the spot Foreign Exchange market but is even more complied with MT4 and different brokers. The data is simply not the same from one place to another. It is going to therefore give signs that are conflicting or erroneous. Yet another reason I don't like MT4. I have not yet made this comparison between cTrader brokers, as I have only used one so much better. But I do intend on doing this shortly...(project #1,257)

In short, it is incumbent upon us to check out our distinct broker, and ask WHERE they get their data. Their answer should be something straight forward and simple to comprehend. . .like, we get our data information from the exchange on our liquidity supplier, Dukoscopy. If you get a long drawn out explanation involving intermediaries and, it depends because we utilize different liquidity providers to give you the best price. . .blah, blah, blah... It might be best to locate a broker with more trustworthy data.

I'm still working on my project for coding cAlgo but now have a healthy distrust of this mt4 platform and think you should too, especially if you're using it to exchange. I'm still exploring, but I do not think mt5 will be a lot better as it is still employing the same (cheating) infrastructure.

I might just keep my spreadsheet going and do it the hard way.

[pkcci]

Hello all,
I'm trying out my programming on cAlgo. Yes I found someone to do the coding for me, but I made the indior that I call Extrapolated Volume Delta. Take a look. Today's trading on AUD/USD was telling but over the past few times you can see the signals. . .Climax, Exhaustion, Absorption. . .which also coincided almost exactly with the top of a range found best on the monthly chart (on the left). I have been using this broker for quite some time now and discover the data is sufficient to make conclusions about the truth of this code. So I will keep you updated. https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1519532246291334739.png
Now lets compare this with the MT4 Platform.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/151953224971904432.png
The differences are subtle but important. . .can you place them?

[pkcci]

Hello All,

Market just opened here and I am putting some finishing touches on the new indi to help me in making trading decisions. I caught this that I believed we all might watch.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15195322511688287583.png
You can see here that the selling side as pretty much exhausted itself and though the past several days of advertisements were powerful volume delta, sellers couldn't place a new low. As well, past friday, buyers came with climax quantity and pushed price out of the hole . I'd entered two positions last week on the climax candle (indied in green) using VSA analysis, and I needed to live with the retest on Thursday and Friday.

On a note of interest as well, the gap in Delta Volume (compared to VSA) you can see that though the candle posted as a climax volume with a wide range (as per the VSA rules), the buying quantity within the candle was not too powerful. It did show a very important thing. . .absorption. To me personally this absorption means the buyers are absorbing powerful selling quantity. This is usually an indiion the traders are either taking profits or buying the market in quantities to absorb all that selling. The moment the overdue sellers offer up (ie stop out), there can possibly be a whoosh greater to retest the high.

[pkcci]

Hello Friends.. .its been awhile since I've managed to post and that I truly appreciate everyone who has stepped up to fill in the gap. I try to keep in touch with my mobile. Now's price reaction has shown once more that sitting on your hands is sometimes the best thing that you can do when trading. Let me show you EUR/USD - short:
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314684271981825564.png
You can recall that I entered this brief 4 weeks ago, and have been holding it since. It appears like it is just beginning to (FINALLY) pay off. My patience was tested by this trade. But using multiple time frames helped. Seeing that buying had completely exhausted on the weekly chart let me hold this trade through a nearly 100% retrace to retest my entrance degree. I have locked in a small 100 pips on the aggregate position which is currently positive about 240 pips.

Lessons here are these:Multiple time frames helps with hold and continuation in addition to management Note the buying fatigue on the weekly chart accompanied by a huge spike in selling Afterwards note that the anemic buying on the retest of the highs (weekly chart) Finally the on the daily chart any buying which happens is weak with powerful selling follow though. We will have to determine if vendors can push price through the most recent daily low.

[pkcci]

Hi,

Just thought I would give you all a heads up on a transaction I've just entered. . .GBP/USD - Extended
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468431982599300.png
I would expect by now this might seem self explanatory. . .so to attempt to generate some attention I can leave the screen shot for this and take questions.

I've entered on position with two more pending for a retest that I guess may occur Monday early Asian session.

So tell me. . .do you find the three phases of bearish exhaustion on these charts?

[pkcci]

Hello Friends.. .just a fast note to followup in my EUR/USD brief...I had been stopped out with roughly 100 pips on the aggregate on this latest reversal. Disappointing but profitable.

[pkcci]

Hello Friends.. .well I guess no one had some queries, none what so ever. So I shall give an update on the current status of my GBP/USD long:
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314684341769841017.png
Price reaction has moved in my favor and this place is positive 90 pips. There remains very substantial levels to be breached nevertheless, and now's volume is muted (so far). I haven't yet mastered the possibility that price may come back and retest this latest low. I've left the pending orders in place and will re evaluate mid-week.

[pkcci]

.. .can only input a transaction short if: 1) Price is above the Pivot when the following day starts. 2) Price has not yet touched the Pivot. According to op rule. . Weekly... price over the weekly pivot and never touch yet. EURUSD - M30 TF I am interested...I see you used several different indiors for your trading. Can quantity play a role? It would appear you made a very wonderful scalp on this pair. . .congratulations. Did any of this commentary in this thread assist you in deciding?

[Moxxomolok]

Hello Friends.. .well I guess nobody had any questions what so ever. I shall offer an update on the current standing of my GBP/USD long: picture Price reaction has transferred in my favor and this position is optimistic 90 pips. There remains very substantial levels to be deciphered nevertheless, and now's volume is muted (so far). I have not yet ruled out the possibility that price may come back and retest this latest low. I have left the pending orders set up and will re evaluate mid-week. You're trading big time period mainly trader like small chart trading un can discuss 15min 5min trading egy discuss https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468407.png. .

Volume is best trading fashion

regards

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314684381508994345.png

[pkcci]

you're trading large time period mostly trader like small chart trading u might discuss 15min 5min trading egy discuss https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468409.png. . Volume is best trading fashion regards scalper16 As I have explained several times on this thread, I trade very little time frames on futures markets NOT on the FX markets. My FX positions are too little to have access to some level 2 brokerage, and frankly I believe scalping the FX market on anything much bigger than a 4-8 hr chart is a losers game since the whole market is NOT transparent. It's involving banks, rather than centralized. This brings me to my next point. The volume data in the FX market (again I have stated this ad nauseam here) is TICK volume rather than true volume. This brings a decided drawback to scalpers utilizing this information to trade with, especially during the gap times.

I trade large time frames because:The total tick volume for an whole day can be successfully invisibly into a reliable delta (that I've done here) and then used on weekly, daily and monthly charts to develop positions that last between 1-2 weeks and render countless pips (not 10-30) I use FX trading as a means to generate a superior return on a savings account apart in my own daily futures trading that generates my daily/weekly income. Therefore I just need check the place and graphics one or twice each day, since I have time and this allows me to have a life beyond my office. I have not put forth any trading egy or strategy with this thread and would not attempt to convince you my egy would work for you. The whole point of this thread (which will become apparent if you read ALL of it) would be to explore the idea of using tick volume to your advantage as an adjunct to what egy you use.

AgainI encourage you to read the whole thread in its entirety to comprehend the purpose and development of this idea.

[paulapkmmemocha]

quote I am curious...I see you utilized many different indiors to your trading. Does quantity play a role? It would seem you made an extremely nice scalp on this pair. . .congratulations. Did any of the comment in this thread assist you?
OMG! My fault... too tired that time. wrong thread. I had been reading your article and following that I had been reading the other person. I have interested about your view on volumes. Sorry about that. YEs I used (tick) quantity too (weekly average quantity pub - past three bars). Then use 1 minute bar average of past few pubs (70% of it, multiply by 2). Now, it's 3AM I hope I'm on a correct thread. .

I am still on method of comprehending your quantity concept, and see how it goes.

Again sorry... about posting this on a wrong thread. I simply deleted it.

[pkcci]

... YEs I did used (tick) volume too (weekly average volume pub - last three bars). Then use 1 minute pub average of last few bars (70% of itmultiply by 2). ... I would be interested to learn more about this concept... I am sure there are lots of scalpers here that might be curious as well.

As far aswrong thread... No worries all thoughts in keeping with this theme (of the way to best utiliza volumen) are welcome.

[pkcci]

It will not really work. Volume is displaying data that is past, can not be used for future predictions like that. Not in FX. I am afraid nothing can forecast the future. However we do reside (and trade) on the moment of right now and evaluate conditions on at this time in a series of events that leads inextricably to the long run. . .one right now moment at a time.

Each moment has changeable conditions that, when coordinated and combined with an understanding of the true structure of the market supply reasonable expectation of profit. This, when coupled with a rational risk management egy, creates a mathematical edge the creates profit on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis

[lani3096]

The indior in the base of those charts is what I am trying to reproduce here on spot fx picture image image picture Hello Donpato,
The indior in the base of the futures chart reveals part of the indior label as pressure. Can it be Buying Selling Stress? What is the title of the indior?

[pkcci]

quote Hi Donpato, The indior in the base of the futures chart reveals part of the indior tag as pressure. Can it be Buying Selling Stress? What is the whole name of the indior? Stress 1(a) is the name however, you won't find it anywhere. I coded it specifically for my way of Trading. It reveals volume delta for a proportion of a constant volume chart. It cannot be reproduced for fx..the indior I am using now in my FX charts is the closest that I will come until the FX is centralized and translucent.

[pkcci]

Hello friends, a quick update on GBP/USD - long:
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468441755651358.png
Price seems to be stalling about the expected degree and in addition, volume has always dropped for every achievement bullish candle. As the current price reaction (to the point) seems fairly bemused, I have decided to lock in a little profit in case price retests the current low. If I see a bearish sign in the next few days I shall very likely stop and reverse, however, I feel more strongly that price will move fast down to the low and retest there possibly forming a double floor. Will be over it. . .if it pushes through the low, I'll stand aside and wait on the next bullish signal.

[Pegmo]

Just wished to thank everyone for this thread particularly DonPato. I am just getting started and all this is totally new to me. Spent the last few months reading a number of books on technical analysis, Elliott waves, plogy of trading etc.. Recently opened a demo account and was getting murdered. . .had no egy and was chasing candles essentially. Spent the better part of two weeks going over this thread again and again trying to figurer out basic concepts of market flow, quantity and price. My head is still spinning but yesterday took my first informed position based on climax, fatigue and absorption with tick data and when I got up now the price had turned and was up about 50 pips so I tore out and checked it again this day and would have gained about another twenty if I'd held on but still feel great to have a basic strategy to pursue and expand upon. If anybody knows of any decent books, educational sites or extra threads for someone looking to learn chime in...,Not wanting to hijack the thread just say thanks!!!

[pkcci]

Not hijacking whatsoever...I'm grateful someone out there wishes to carry on a dialog. Please feel free to participate or ask questions. Happy to proffer my opinion. . .which is that. . .opinion. To get you started lets see if you're able to identify the reasoning for this trade that is long.
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314684441273666490.png

[Pegmo]

Hi Don Pato, once more thanks to the ribbon and taking the time. Interesting you should pick this chart as I looked at it earlier this week and trying to ascertain the next move. I'm currently reading a book on Elliott wave and so my initial take was that it's currently in a corrective phase and in the brief term will adjust at least on the 1.280 level and then turn from there. But looking at how you analyze charts(much of it's still a puzzle)I believe the large red candlestick (third in the end) signifies the orgasm stage and the following candle with strong tick data volume(that is all I must use) but failing to close under the previous low and even having a tiny body relative to the length of its shadow represents exhaustion along with a pivot point. I nevertheless believe the disadvantage move must finish first although this would cause me to believe that a move to the upside is imminent. Thoughts? I want to figure out how to copy and paste charts on here and draw lines and make remarks but right now this is all I have. Thanks again.

[pkcci]

Hi Don Pato, once again thanks for the ribbon and taking the moment. Interesting you should pick this chart since I was considering it earlier this week and attempting to determine the next move. I am currently reading a book on Elliott wave so my first take was that it is currently in a corrective phase and at the short term will adjust at least on the 1.280 level then turn from there. But looking at the way you examine charts(much of it's still a mystery )I feel the big red candlestick (third in the end) signifies the orgasm stage and the... Hey Sully...I had a very lengthy (and in my view ) informative post written and pushed the wrong button and lost it all. So I need to go now, but will try and recreate it again later this evening...I'm sorry. . .fat finger mistake

[pkcci]

OK...I'll try this again, and hope it works now...

... I am currently reading a book on Elliott wave so my first take was that it is currently in a corrective phase and in the short term will correct at least on the 1.280 level then turn from there... I also studied Elliott Wave theory. I finally found it fruing and confusing. I am sure it worked for Ralph Nelson Elliot, but I have been unable to make it work for me. I discovered it is too complied and puts a level of disturbance between the professional (technician) and the true market. I think you (or anyone) would be a lot better served devoting your understanding to the basics of how the market actually works. That which I call the fundamental structure of the market. This can be summed up in 4 elemental factors:Time - Which finally creates an urge to act, or the drive to participate in the market Order flow - that is an immediate outcome of the earlier mentioned urge to activity Volume - functions together with order flow but also measures the assurance of involvement. If one is dubious of the position he/she chooses in the market they will frequently lower the size of the order. Conversely if one is very confident of the position, that position dimension is generally larger. Price - the direct outcome of the previous few factors creates price and price movement. Price then creates a feed back into the start of the factors and a cycle (virtuous or vicious) starts I feel that by learning to read and recognize the fluid nature of the fundamental factors one can better understand what is currently occurring and then SPECULATE about the near future (near or distant) and choose the proper action needed for one's interest. While I am on the Topic. . .let us never forget that this business is called speculation for a reason. Nothing presented here can forecast future price movements. NOTHING!!


. . .But looking at the way you examine charts(much of it is still a mystery )I feel that the big red candlestick (third from the end) represents the orgasm period and the next candle with strong tick data quantity (that's all I must use) but neglecting to close below the previous low and also having a tiny real body relative to the amount of its shadow represents exhaustion along with a pivot point... You are correct. The focus of the thread was to specifically deal with volume and its connection to order flow and the way we can use that within the decentralized FX market. What I showed was multifaceted. The weekly chart (on the left) showed a rise over an area where buying had previously been consumed. Then a return on the exact same area. The daily chart (on the right) showed the selling dominance that emptied from one day to another. I anticipated a change in the order flow and that's just what happened. The order flow went from selling dominance to balance. The selling retested the lows found on that original chart but any selling in this area was consumed. Any buying that ensued was short lived and can be probably shorts covering. A range is now in place that reflects an equilibrium or types between buying and selling.
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314684471910935639.png


. .This would lead me to think that a move to the upside is imminent but I still think the downside move has to complete first. Ideas? ... Thanks again. You might be appropriate (we simply won't understand until it happens). A move to the upside is what I am anticipating. It's shown NOT to become imminent. However the change in order flow is a step in the right direction. It signals that the stall in advertising dominance. Should price ramble back to the 1.2950-1.2975 place, I'd expect ceases shorts covering. . .and this could make a whoosh in buying pressure and send price higher. However, the reverse might also be authentic. . .which would threaten my stop. So we'll just have to wait and see how this plays out.

[pepipkgmixxago2]

Definetly on the path that is perfect. At lower timeframes intraday add OBV or accumulative deltas to get”caliber” of quantity. Will help determine market manufacturers accumulation (exhaustion, absorption). Additionally volume profile? Have you ever studied?

Agree about wave concept and any price indior. Rubbish the instos would like you to be using. Helps them
accumulate your liquidity.

Can you intraday trade?

[AlbaM]

Hello, DonPato!
Why can you utilize sign up chart for futures trading?
Sorry for the English
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468450759648164.png
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468452765897148.png

[pkcci]

Hi, Donato! Is it that you utilize tick chart for futures trading? Hello Alkor. I use constant tick and constant volume charts since they minimize the effects of time on the chart and thus offer a clearer perspective of the order flow. I have tried viewing only the order flow in the futures market but during times of rapid price movement it's too complied for me to comprehend. Price bars (using constant tick/volume) leave only the element of order flow outside, thus I can see more clearly where the order flow is waxing and waning no matter whether or not a 5 minutes or 1 min bar has finished forming. I hope this makes sense

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314683471051304552.png
This chart shows what I call a FU stop Where I got stopped out just before reaching my limit...I HATE it when this happens, but still made the weekly target on this 1 trade

[pkcci]

Definetly to the ideal path. At reduced timeframes intraday include OBV or cumulative deltas to get”caliber” of quantity. Will help determine market manufacturers accumulation (fatigue, absorption). Additionally volume profile? Have you ever studied? Agree about wave theory and any price indior. Rubbish that the instos would like you to be using. Helps your liquidity is accumulated by them. Can you intraday trade? Hello MLeslie. . .Yes I do intraday commerce but not around the Foreign Exchange Market. For reasons I voiced early in this thread. Many due to the character of intraday tick quantity. I trade e-minis on the futures market. (See above article for an illustration of my charts). Welcome, I hope you find something of worth here.

[AlbaM]

This chart shows what I call a FU stop whom I have stopped out before reaching my limit...I HATE it when this occurs, but still made the weekly target with this 1 commerce DonPato, thank you!
You didn't use the next structure to enteres: Climax, Exhaustion, Absorption?

[AlbaM]

I'm thoughtful.
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314683502002347544.png

[pkcci]

quote , thank you! You didn't use the following arrangement to enteres: Climax, Exhaustion, Absorption? Yes I did use these stages. . .but I don't always trade reversals. . .sometimes I trade continuations. As soon as I started my trading platform, I found that a very long sign - based on selling fatigue - had failed. . .twice. I found no reason to fight such a 1 way order flow so I combined at the direction of the order flow
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314683541928742278.png
I have annotated (in pink) the failed sign and saw the price continued to creep during the lows. Why fight that? Leap in. . .hold on. . .and keep your stop out of the way. . .that last bit I didn't quite manage as well as I ought to have. I got really excited to see that a week's profit in just 1 trade I wanted to keep it. . .so I tightened my stop and bah-da-bing got the F*** You stop (FU cease ). However, I still made my week so I was OK. . .even though I hate it when this occurs.

Here's a screen shot from yesterday's trading...I didn't trade now... in which I did utilize the change signal.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468358510245955.png
This transaction also ended up with a week's profit in just a couple of minutes. . .so I decided to take the day off and NOT risk what I had just produced. In premarket I started the platform and watched a completed buying fatigue signal. Approximately 10 minutes before the open I was full of all my orders. The moment the market started price sliced its way down to my limitation. I didn't understand it at the time, but that ended up being the low of the session.

[pepipkgmixxago2]

Emini? Very nice!!! So you have to be doing nicely. Can I ask what type of profits on average per week could you make 2:1, 4:1, 10:1, greater? This is trading work that is excellent. Are you currently seeing vix and usd futures entry/exits? Or something else?

[pkcci]

Emini? Very pleasant!!! So you must do very well. Can I ask what kind of profits on average per week would you create 2:1, 4:1, 10:1, higher? This is definetly trading outstanding work. Are you seeing vix and usd futures entry/exits? Or something different? Thanks for your kind remarks. . .The average trade for me personally is a risk-to-reward ratio of 2.8:1 I typically take profit at the level and also tend NOT to journey tendencies although lately they've paid off in spades, but that is the exception to this rule and the market has been extremely volatile for the last month. Thus if that volatility makes me per week in just 1 trade I usually do not put it at risk again until the next week. I came up on this level after a long time of data collection on my trading and the way I run my ceases...I found that though some trades did go further, as evidenced lately, most frequently the most efficient approach to trade is take profit at the sweet spot. . .and for me that is 2.8:1.

I trade using order flow and market construction concepts. The point of this thread was supposed to translate those classes to the FX market however, it's proven a challenge. I have stated this ad nauseum here with this thread. Tick volume is quite different from the true volume in the futures market. . .and that's what makes a HUGE difference if day trading on the FX. However, employing the whole day's tick volume data you can extrapolate a fairly near volume delta that may subsequently be used to create reasonable trade entrances and exits on longer time frames...(nothing less than daily charts).

This is due to the fact that the tick volume data on intraday time frames waxes and wanes between sessions, (Tokoyo, London, NY), so in a low volume surroundings between sessions (or gap period ), many fictitious or incorrect signals could be generated, not since the order flow isn't there, but since the true measure of its strength or weakness isn't reflected in tick data. That being said, using the whole day's data that surpasses the gap occasions, an individual can make some pretty rational decisions based on extrapolation of delta.

clear as mud?

[pepipkgmixxago2]

quote Thanks for your kind remarks. . .The average trade for me personally is that a risk-to-reward ratio of 2.8:1 I usually just take profit at the level and also tend NOT to ride tendencies although recently they've paid off in spades, but that is more the exception to this rule and the market has been extremely volatile for the past month. Thus if this volatility makes me a week in just one trade I usually do not put it at risk until the following week. I came up on this amount after a long time of data collection on my trading and how I run my ceases...I found... Lol all great. Well done mate!
Unless youre trading nekkei I wouldnt even use asia liquidity in your calculations. Why not use futures for spot market?

[pkcci]

Lol all good. Well done mate! Unless youre trading nekkei I wouldnt even utilize asia liquidity in your calculations. Why don't you utilize futures for spot market? Been there. . .tried that. I ended up with my head going back and forth to attempt to translate volume on a single display with price on the other that I swear my mind turned 360°. I figured I needed to find a way.

[AlbaM]

CL M5Climax Exhaustion Absorption https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314683601718736482.png

[pkcci]

CL M5 Climax Exhaustion Absorption I'd say you've got this notion nicely. You have pointed out the very same anomalies that I look for when I trade. Lets take them one at a time:
Climax: Quite obvious the one you have pointed out. I believe that you will notice that these pubs almost always form when price breaks to a new high or low. The large tell is when a fashion is shaped and there is NO new support amount being broken, but quantity climaxes down (or up as the case might be) and looks to be an acceleration. I really don't see it on your own chart but I'm sure it happens...

Exhaustion: Nicely done!! You can see a succession of pubs there which show (what I assume is delta in the base of your chart) bullish - yet feeble - but bullish and a number of these bars end strongly bearish. Here really is the analogy that I look for in exhaustion. This is a sign that advertising is waning and also that buying interest is beginning to come in. . .my guess would be that this area is where vendors are getting profit and selling into this late (usually retail) trader.

Absorption: NAIL ON THE HEAD!! (1) Growing volume (2) Rising Bearish Delta (3) bar finished significantly off the lows and in this instance proved to be a bullish finish. If you read only volume this should have been a bearish finish but it wasn't. . .why is that? Consider this. . .MORE SELLING THAN BUYING, nevertheless bar finished off the lows - much bullish.

Response: someplace in the lower wick of the bar all that selling met up with a massive group of pending orders and was absorbed. After the those selling orders where satisfied, all that was left was for the rest of the buy orders to be filled, so price started moving higher, and in fact the candle finished bullish.

Often times that area is retested back, and that I see it was and produced yet another absorption bar (7th in the right). This bar had the opposite profile but still shows the exact same absorption in approximately the exact same area. Rising bullish delta but a bearish close that is off the lows. You often don't get a confirmation bar but if ever there was one that one is it.

Well done! Good monitoring.

[eslemmigi]

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314683631580142276.png

[AlbaM]

DonPato, thanks for the comment!
Have you tried using the Delta chart constant to estimate that the order flow?
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314683651356351845.png

[pkcci]

, Thank you for the comment! Have you ever tried using the Delta chart constant to gauge the order flow? I have not heard of that chart config. I will look it over. To my knowledge my supplier (TradeStation) does not offer that. . .but I will check. I do use constant volume and constant tick. . .bu b never heard of delta charts.

[Pegmo]

Hey DonPato thanks for the response. It has taken me awhile to get back due to other duties...I want to carve time out each day till I get a better handle on some of those theories. On your earlier post(usd/cad) you chose a position based on market flow. The buyers had pushed through an area of selling and established a new level of support nevertheless, you never mentioned volume or the stages discussed in this thread(climax, exhaustion and absorption). Can you look at a chart and have a place based on those candle moves(regions of balance) or would you always look for confirmation in volume, tick info ?

I tend to agree on Elliott wave I am trying to apply it but it is difficult to make the correct assessment of where you're in the wave hierarchy. I understand some folks do it successfully but perhaps for me it is just another tool to make informed decisions concerning which way price will proceed.

[pkcci]

.. .In your earlier article (usd/cad) you took a position based on market flow. The buyers had driven through an area of selling and established a new degree of support nevertheless, you never said volume or the stages mentioned in this thread(orgasm, fatigue and absorption). Can you have a look at a chart and take a place based on those candle moves(regions of equilibrium ) or would you always look for affirmation in volume, tick data ? .... If I recall properly on that particular trade I was exploring different volume providers to see if I could discover or code something that would make a similar experience to the delta indior I had been using in the futures market. (I had not yet coded the extrapolated delta indior I use).

So to answer the query I used a bit of what you said...I needed to look back in the posts to find this screen shot. Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468367358119223.png
USD/CAD was in a 200 pip range for many weeks. As is typical of ranges that the majority of the volume is in the middle of the range and then volume off a the edges. . .this is how I define a stable range. I anotated here the orgasm volume that pushed price up to the top of the range but couldn't push price through the resistance on very top. Then price stalled there and did finally push though the top of the range but could NOT close . . .it did so on diminishing bullish volume. I translated those candles as orgasm and absorption phases...

As this corresponded exactly on top of the range it only added to the legitimacy this shirt was holding and I had been clear to brief after seeing specifically the buying absorption on very top. I hope this makes more sense...

[Pegmo]

OK...I will try this again, and hope it works this time... quote I also studied Elliott Wave theory. I finally found it fruing and confusing. I'm convinced it worked for Ralph Nelson Elliot, but I have been not able to make it work for me. I found it is unnecessarily too complied and places a level of disturbance between the professional (tech ) and the true market. I think you (or anyone) would be much better served devoting your understanding into the fundamentals of how the market actually works. That which I call the fundamental structure of...
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314683701972034546.png


Hey DonPato I think we have our posts confused. Here's the article I was referring to. I think you went back to a previous article from 2017 but that is the only from April 9th of this year.

[pkcci]

Hey I believe we got our articles perplexed. Here's the article I was speaking about. I believe you went back to a previous article from 2017 but that is the one from April 9th of this year. Ok now I am confused... what issue did you have which was NOT response in the quoted article? I think I was quite specific.

[Pegmo]

I was asking whether you had taken that position based on market flow independently or whether you had also incorporated aspects of volume, tick data or climax, fatigue and absorption as confirming indiors.

[pkcci]

I was asking if you'd taken that position based on market flow alone or if you'd also incorporated aspects of volume, tick information or climax, fatigue and absorption as affirming indiors. Hello again Sully. . .yes each the aforementioned. Again, I look for fatigue once I am wanting to trade reversals (even if they are back in the direction of the overall trend). The screen shot posted showed a little red bearish candle which indies climax. This is also supported from the extrapolated Delta indior in the bottom of the chart. The very next candle formed (what many here would call a trap pub ), and revealed bullish volume that indied the climax selling was short lived. In addition the same candle formed on rising tick volume (seen in the bottom of the price chart.

All this happened in an area where I would expect buyers to step in because it had been a retest of a previous range high, (best found on the weekly chart). So YES, I used market flow, '' I used volume (tick volume is we all have here in FX), the stages I spoke about in the beginning of the thread. . .all of that...

The order flow did change and price went sideways, but then collapsed down further. . .and this trade has been a loser. . .we can't win them all. That is why we call this company speculation.

[Aeman]

Hey I have been throughout your threads and can we have a conversation to produce the ribbon active, is this an example of absorption this is silver over the 45 min I posted two pictures,your example accompanied by mine and will you spot exhaustion I'm having a hard time finding. Thanks for blessing us with your information and thanks to the thread.
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314682592091749940.png
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314682611445477456.png

[Aeman]

Here is another instance on the 4hr silver
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314682631486092779.png

[pkcci]

Hey I have been through your threads and can we have a dialog to make the thread active, is this an instance of absorption this is silver on the 45 min I posted two pictures,your instance accompanied by mine and can you spot exhaustion I'm having a hard time finding. Thank you for blessing us with your information and thanks for the thread. If I understand you correctly, you are asking if your 15 and 4 hr charts are showing exactly the identical thing I highlighted on this chart. I'm unable to inform a couple of different reasons:It seems you have Heiken I candle sticks on your chart, which completely obliterate the price movements during any time frame you have. These candles were made to show tendencies, and as the market we're currently looking was ranging, I don't believe they're useful. . .in fact I really don't believe any trend indior is very beneficial. . .so I'm unable to see what you are referring to if you state the silver If you mean the doji? Again, with Heiken I, some price action sign is not truly what you think it is. Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/1531468241.png
This 15 min screen shot indicates no doji and actually shows (with this very compact time period ) that quantity just pooped out at the very top. That is typical of ranges.It seems you are attempting to use volume for a divergence instrument to find entry points. I believe is a particularly unhelpful method of determining absorption. Especially on Foreign Exchange intraday time frames. I have said this ad nauseaum here with this thread but it bears mentioning . Intraday tick quantity is not especially useful on intraday time frames. This is only because it waxes and wanes between major sessions and can lead to just the kind of thing you are pointing to. Just because the quantity is falling intraday doesn't mean order flow is exhausting. . .it means people are leaving the market or waiting until the following session to participate. Remember we are discussing TICK quantity (as it's the only volume data we have in Foreign Exchange ) and this isn't measuring the size of involvement, only the number of transactions. Thus upticks or downticks in bulk especially intraday are meaningless in relation to extrapolating order flow. This is why I (just me seemingly ) advoe utilizing DAY charts or larger because you have the entire day'a tick quantity and can then extrapolate order flow and quantity delta from that. Consider the charts you posted especially the 4 hr chart. You can observe waves of tick quantity moving lower and higher at the open and close of every day. . .look farther in to the 15 min chart and realize the volume drop to almost nothing at the end of the day. . .normal. . .natural.

We can't derive any meaning from these readings because this is what always happens daily and so any divergence is a false sign or just NO sign at all. Normally I seem to see (ON A DAILY CHART) price close off the highs of candle (for a market signal) on RISING tick quantity. However, ONLY after I have first seen, a finished Climax, and Exhaustion phase. I take no actions until I see all 3 phases complete. They don't always happen in this order but frequently they do and when that happens, they are normally the best signal.

Edit: As a side note I have discontinued using Oanda as my date provider. Among other things the way they've split daily and week additionally creates signals where none ought to be. . .and this chart is from this period where I was researching this very difficulty. Here's a screen shot of that Exact Same place together with my current data provider...

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314682651641950611.png
As you can see here the climax, exhaustion and absorption periods are a Lot More evident

[Aeman]

Oh Thank you for the clarifiion, I am studying your methods and about the Forex Intraday comment you are right your mentor gspajon mentioned the same about Forex volume not being significant on the time frames as I was learning Balanced and Unbalanced methods. Do you think your methods are applicable in other markets besides stocks and forex, such as stocks and crypto markets concerning volume disparities such as OTC (over the counter transactions ) and dark pools? Thank you for the answer it means

[pkcci]

Oh Thank you to this clarifiion, I'm studying your methods and regarding the Forex Intraday comment you are correct your mentor gspajon said exactly the same about Forex volume not being important on the lower time frames as I was learning Balanced and Unbalanced techniques. Do you believe your methods are applicable in other markets besides futures and forex, such as stocks and crypto markets regarding quantity disparities like OTC (over the counter trades) and dim pools? Thank you for the answer it means so much You know gspajon? I haven't heard from him in a lengthy time. I know he is no more posting here on FF. . .got tired of being bullied only for trying to help out. If you talk with him inform please convey my very best wishes.

I'm glad you mentioned equilibrium and unbalanced order flow. . .while it is NOT the discussion here, and I'm positive gspajon will disagree with me, I have found that utilizing these phases, (Climax, Exhaustion, Absorption) helps prevent fliers when placing order to a retest of a equilibrium zone. I have often been burnt when I simply set an order close to a equilibrium zone, and then see as price crashes throughout that place with out so much as a pause. But when I see price coming a retest place or a equilibrium zone place, I wait to find these phases full before I place order out. This has saved my bacon on more than 1 event. Meaning the I lose, the longer I maintain, even though it means I miss the primo entry. I have used this to boost my win/loss ratio, which for me has proven quite profitable.

This theory of exhaustion can work any market that is zero amount in which you have reliable data. I use it to trade futures, and commodities as well as FX. I imagine stocks would also function but that's not a zero sum market such as forex, futures, and commodities...

[Aeman]

I don't personally know him I was just going through his threads, Was awful the way he got treated. Is this your principal method of trading with these three stages? Or have you got any other procedures to include confluence to your transactions?

[pkcci]

I don't personally know him I was only going through his threads, Were awful how he got treated. Is this your principal process of trading using these 3 stages? Or do you have some other methods to include confluence to your transactions? I have found that using volume/delta has been the missing piece to my own trading. It took me a great while to understand and be able to see order flow however since then I was just trying to discover a way to be more precise about transacting, both entering and leaving.

If he had been mentoring me told me not to waste my time with it or move over to stocks and use the hell out of it. . .which is what I did, but still in the back of my head I figured since these markets work the same way, it should be possible to find something which can at least filter my own trades so that I can benefit from fundamental aspects of the market...

Again we're focusing on quantity when it comes to FX, however I really do use my ability to determine order flow then filter which through the lens of quantity delta and have found it has been quite accurate (at least compared to the way I used to do).

I shall give you this screen shot of EUR/JPY. . .market has to open but I've placed my order to find out if it will fill.
Https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314682681547213089.png
In case your wondering about that last daily candle. . .yes it is on declining tick quantity. . .but I am taking a look at a range, and it would seem that quantity is pooping out again at the top of this range. . .so if I am wrong, I will know immediately, I believe.

[Aeman]

Hey I had been moving through another thread Price-Structure-Order flow I wished to grasp order flow until I got into volume, do you consider these activities balanced I only wanted to clarify?
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314682701714063858.png

[pkcci]

Hey I was moving through your other thread Price-Structure-Order flow I wished to grasp order flow before I got to volume, do you consider those activities balanced I only wanted to clarify? To not get too deeply in the weeds...I still have that thread in my radar and may answer any more specific questions about order flow and its foot print there. But I have modified your places with boxes indiing in which the balance regions are. . .and drawn a large red X through your center box. . .that is NOT an balance area.
https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/attachments/15314682721005701107.png