Thread: trading systems vs account size

Originally Posted by ;

The subject was MAKING A LIVING.. .not developing a $300 account....Gp outside and begin your own Biz for $300 and see how much you go....as the poster stated....that is a hobby....not trading for a living....BIG DIFFERENCE

I don't think anyone here thinks that they will make 4-5k a month away a $300 account. Maybe that is thought by them and I'm unaware. However, you need to begin somewhere and I would not quit my job with anything less then $500,000 in my trading account.

Originally Posted by ;

To those traders who think they can still make lots of money trading mini accounts.

Imagine you're the forex broker and you also set your own forex business. You let me and a few other traders to open a mini forex account ($250-$5000) with you.

Should we perform clever we can make lots of money you off. We can turn our investment .

Why in the world would you as forex broker permit that to occur? Cause it's bad business sense to permit someone to invest $250-$5000 BUT he will make thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands from you???? Your forex industry would go bankrupt in less than a month's time. Cause you just get small change (initial investment and spread) in from investors but you have to pay out big amounts of cash to them. You as the forex broker now carries of the risk. And because you understand any company can carry uncovered risk just. Uncovered risk is what causes businesses to bankrupt.

Brokers only permit you to open mini accounts together cause that is a no risk guarenteed income for them. 95 percent of mini accounts become blown. That makes good business sense to allow someone to investment a small amount of money in your forex business if the odds are heavily in your favor and heavily against them. Whatever you have to do is trick them into thinking they can take $250-$5000 and turn it.

Ps....if you still think you can beat forex with just a mini account then I advise you draw your money ASAP from the forex broker cause there's NO WAY your forex broker can manage this discovered risk by paying millions of dollars to customers if they only invest in small $250-$5000 mini accounts. Somewhere along the line your broker is currently gon na run into cashflow issues and/or the uncovered risk will kill them. However, how many reliable forex brokers go bankrupt every week? Hmmmm makes u believe does not it....

Somehow, you think you are playing Against the Broker...

Originally Posted by ;

I don't believe anyone here thinks they will make 4-5k a month away a $300 account. Perhaps that is thought by them and I'm unaware. However, you need to start somewhere and I wouldn't quit my job with anything less then $500,000 in my trading account.

Starting somewhere was covered in a previous post....though I would NEVER keep 500k having an OTC place broker...I could be wrong, thinking past I heard...1 million to get a bank trading account....correct if confused.

And YES, many do think 300 can visit 1million....may take 30 decades.
Although 50k can certainly return 4-5k a month/though I would prefer a better pillow....once a trader is aware of what they are doing. My self, I do not care when my account reaches 1 million. I take 2 paychecks monthly....and put excess into other vehicles.

Originally Posted by ;

To those traders who believe they can still make lots of money trading mini accounts.

Imagine you're the forex broker and you put your own forex business. You let me along with a few other traders to open a mini forex account ($250-$5000) with you.

Should we perform clever we can make lots of money off you. Our little investment can be turned by us .

Why on earth could you as forex broker allow that to occur? Cause it is bad business sense to allow someone to only spend $250-$5000 together with you, BUT from you???? he will make thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands Your forex industry would go bankrupt in less than a month's time. Cause you only get little change (initial investment and disperse ) from shareholders but you have to pay out large amounts of cash to them. You as the forex broker now carries all the risk. And because you understand any business can carry uncovered risk for a while. Uncovered risk is what causes businesses to bankrupt.

Brokers only allow you to open mini accounts together cause that's a no risk guarenteed income for them. 95% of mini accounts become blown. That makes good business sense to allow someone to investment a small amount of money in your forex business if the odds are heavily in your favor and heavily against them. All you have to do is trick them into believing they can take $250-and turn it.

Ps....if that you still believe you can beat forex with only a mini account then I advise you draw your money ASAP out of your forex broker cause there's absolutely no WAY your forex broker can handle this discovered risk by paying millions of dollars to clients if they only invest in little $250-$5000 mini accounts. Somewhere along the line your broker is gonna encounter cashflow issues or the found risk will kill them. But many reliable forex brokers go bankrupt every week? Hmmmm makes u think doesn't it....

Ahh, I see.
You're a conspiracy theorist. LOL
So you feel that all brokers offering minis are defrauding their clients because all tiny clients only trading in the 1 direction and cannot possibly have their rankings cancel against each other. Man, that might require something or a computer!
Apparently none of these defrauded clients ever communie with each other and this huge secret stays hidden.
And there must always be an inexhaustable source of those suckers(because their accounts are drained quickly ) and they need to just continue to lose without learning anything.
I would suggest brokers cashflow issues are rarely solved by fraud and the accounts of tiny retail traders would be the least of the problems.
Please keep posting. This material is gold.

Originally Posted by ;

Beginning somewhere was coated in an earlier article....though I would NEVER maintain 500k having an OTC spot broker...I might be wrong, believing past I heard...1 million to get a bank trading account....correct if puzzled.

And YES, many do believe 300 can visit 1million....may take 30 decades.
Though 50k can certainly return 4-5k a month/though I would like a much better cushion....once a trader is aware of what they are doing. Itself, I don't care if my account reaches 1 million. I take 2 pay checks a month....and put excess into other vehicles.

So that you believe you can turn 10% a month with a 50k account?

Yet, you insist a $300 account could not do the same?

I say, Invest $300 per month for 36 weeks. That is a vehicle payment for Americans. Compounded making 10% a month while maintaining your regular occupation will net you 89,738.04 with only a $10800 investment within the course of 36 weeks.

do that for 4 years (48 Months the duration of the standard vehicle loan). You've invested $14400 and your account balance would be 288,051.70.

You can not have it both ways. Either it is or it's impossible to earn 10% a month on a FX account. Capital does not have any relivance to that fact. My Broker lets me trade all the way down to .01 Mini lots. I do and can apply money management to my transactions with an account as little as $300.

The difference is, you are advoing that people initially risk $50,000 to earn a living on Forex. I'm advoing you maintain your job, spend a small sum and in less time then the marrage in America you can have a number of savings and the ability to free yourself out of a job. You can keep your standard of living without risking health benifits, mortgage or food.

Originally Posted by ;

No doubt, I agree with you on using mini's in that fashion you describe.

Though to get the best spreads and lowest commissions....example Dukascopy....250k is tiniest lot and the spreads are LOW, what is commission currently...$20/mil or $25/mil
Today I have to admitI do like Oanda....very great for a miniature trader with Capital....plus they cover that commish from the second....it is a wonderful bonus when a Extended 10 lot trade on any yen cross takes a while to proceed to TP.

Yup, you're right about the spreads.
I got a bit carried away with the mini-standard debate and lost sight of the original article. Points were produced for certain.

Originally Posted by ;

So you believe that all brokers offering minis are defrauding their customers

I really do. Anything under 10-30k should not be using lots. They are undoubtedly too big. Micro sizing is essential for any account below those amounts to permit proper MM. If you're forced to utilize no less than 1 USD/pip then you are overstaking and utilizing by much too much risk. Your chances of blowing out when utilizing a functional system are far far far greater (do a risk analysis / simulation in case you don't trust me writing it) and you will basically just GIVE your broker the 500$ if that's what you're opening the miniature with.

I know half of the public forum will challenge and ridicule this statement, but I believe that most of those screaming how they've turned 200$ to 2000$ and the way that it's perfectly fine to trade mini wind up being the ones writing something along the lines blew my third account in 6 month's time.

Just my opinion and personal experience.

Also please realize you could stake 500$ per pip with a micro account too. For some reason people keep on believing that just because you're able to use as small as a few cents that you must. No, you CAN. However, what IS important is that you don't HAVE to use 1 USD/pip min and that of the difference in the world.

A good way to tell how this enforced overstaking from the brokers is the way that they squeeze you dry is that if I asked about anybody offering micro when looking around for a new broker they started go oh, er, well, hmmm, you know, that's THEORETICALLY potential, but... or simply right out blatantly no sorry, we don't offer micro.

Right. It is sooooo impossible to permit for a neighborhood coping desk which they operate pooling and offsetting of micros, but it is not silly to implement account management for. Righto. .

Funnily enough some of the support desks/chat individuals actually consented that it is impossible to implement Appropriate risk management with a miniature only account with such small a size....how's that for a laugh

Originally Posted by ;

I really do. Anything under 10-30k should not be using lots. They are undoubtedly too significant. Micro sizing is essential for any account under those amounts to allow MM. If you're forced to utilize a minimum of 1 USD/pip then you are seriously overstaking and utilizing by risk. Your chances of blowing out even when utilizing a practical system are far far far greater (do a risk analysis / simulation if you don't trust me writing it) and you will basically just GIVE your broker the 500$ if that is what you are opening the mini with.

I know half of the public forum will dispute and ridicule this announcement, but I feel that most of those yelling how they have turned 200$ to 2000$ and how it's perfectly alright to trade mini end up being the ones writing something along the lines blew my third account in 6 month's time.

Only my opinion and personal experience.

Also please realize you could stake 500$ per pip using a micro account as well. For some reason people continue thinking that just because you're able to use as small as a couple pennies that you HAVE to. No, you CAN. However, what IS important is that you don't need to use 1 USD/pip minutes and that of the difference in the world.

You are right using those assumptions as usual SL.

The problem is people retain labling Mini accounts incorrectly. The fact is the most Mini account will enable you to trade 0.10 (1 micro) or even as low as 0.01 (1 liter ) Mini lots. I know many brokers which allow this. The two most popular are IBFX and Oanda.

Given the aforementioned, it's perfectly okay to open a mini account with $300. Just don't expect to trade 1.00 mini lot, or you're an idiot.

Originally Posted by ;

Ahh, I see.
You are a conspiracy theorist. LOL
So you believe that all brokers that offer minis are defrauding their clients because all small clients only trading in the 1 direction and can't possibly have their rankings offset against each other. Man, that might take a computer or something!
Apparently not one of these defrauded clients ever communie with each other and this huge secret stays hidden.
And there must always be an inexhaustable supply of those suckers(because their accounts are emptied rapidly) and they need to just continue to shed without ever learning anything.
I'd suggest brokers cashflow problems are rarely solved by fraud as well as the accounts of tiny retail traders would be the least of the problems.
Please keep posting. This material is gold.

Ok let us put this problem to rest. Please provide me or find a person who will give us a detailed account statement in which we can see how they turned $250-$5000? THERE IS NO SUCH PERSON. Everyone is still working on it or have disregarded their account. But in any case I do not want convince one that's impossible. Just time and a lot of efforts will convince you. But I wish you the very best of trading.

Originally Posted by ;

Can't make a living with a mini account? Speak to my friend (on this forum) out of Indonesia and ask how much you need to reside there.
....
My purpose? We all have our personal preferences, goals, approaches, situations, etc. and can't be painted with the exact same brush.

Oh Sorry Bill, I am not living off from Currency Market, however it's indeed cheaper to reside in tropical island as an example, a Mc Donald Fillet O'fish with cheese Small Coke Med Fries is significantly less than $2 (that's why it is called junk food directly?) But it still taste great... no refill though...
should you love vegetables you can cut the cost to 1/3.

Since the thread become more confusing, if most of the miniature trader broke, is not it because it's retail? So many use this, and attempt....
...
once I compute, if I have to reside from Currency Market with $200 a month with 10% return a year, I need $24.000 but if I could get 100% return a year, I still require $2.400.... I think that it's return to ROI (Return of Investment)

and yes, someone may ever become a billionaire from zero, even in forex