Thread: trading systems vs account size

I find this post funny as everybody appears to be shuffling around thinking there and here and trying to patch up the holes in their own response.

I believe there is a fundamental difference of opinion here: People people looking at pursuing trading as a complete time job and income, and also the ones that must leave it as a part-time endeavor as a result of current job/life limitations. I must say I feel a bit privileged as I am able to have the opportunity to cultivate an account into something worthwhile and livable. People don't, and it appears to frue.

I complete agree that if you are going to attempt to make the jump to trading for income you ought to cut your teeth on a real account, even if only $500 as losing actual cash strikes, regardless of the amount. It wakes up you to the reality that it's your money at stake and it's your choice to do right by it. Sure you could come at me saying that losing 50 isn't that bad once you have a $30k account! Trust me, when I had a $30k account, I wouldn't be dropping $50, that would be nearer to $500-2,000 (god forbid).

Another matter forcing the divide between people needing large amounts to live comfortably and those people that don't is the time element. I've got more time to devote to trading and learning to trade and can function more actively towards my goal of expanding my account where someone includes a lot more difficulty. It's kinda like going to school in ways; you can either slug it from the start and be on the other end of a diploma in a few decades, or whether you're tied up in other things (like life itself) and you are only able to perform a couple of night courses at one time, it's gonna require more. Of course, some decide they don't wish to do this and cut out a clear path out and shelve anything it is that is keeping them in night courses and just duke it out working overtime in course so that they're probably coming out after 2 years with vengeance.

Be wary of the trader hustling for all those 200-1000 pips a week since they're the ones with the drive and desire to slug it out towards the very best. Yes it is entirely possible to net over 1000 pips per week safely and with no craziness applied liberally. No I am not speaking out of my bum or selling snake oil. I have seen it done and I have done it on more than 1 occasion myself. It's all in how much you are willing to enter it and how you're willing to deal with the current situation you are in, good or poor.

To put things in perspective, no you don't have to live in somewhere like Indonesia to live on a lower income. I can live comfortably here in Dallas, TX on $1,000 a month, or $250 a week. Do I live in a mansion with a trophy wife? Of course not, but I have a decent place to live, eat well, and have cash to go out with on weekends. So let's say that for each $250 of profit I take out, I leave another $250 from the account? Well, that begins to pile up before too long, then $250 turns into $350, to $300, growing quicker and quicker between each phase. This is all quite doable on a account, and I'm speaking about one in a proper broker in an ECN like HotSpotFXi or even ODL. It's all about perspective and context. I'd make just about as much money doing this than I do at which I do working full time!

Another thing that disturbs me

YOU Don't Have THE FULL ACCOUNT BALANCE TO WIELD AROUND AS POSSIBLE DRAWDOWN EQUITY ONCE YOU HAVE ENTERED A POSITION. YOU HAVE WHATEVER IS LEFT AFTER YOUR MARGIN REQUIREMENTS.

ALSO, PLEASE START THINKING WITH AN OPEN MIND AND LISTENING WITH AN OPEN EAR. YOU DO NOT GET AHEAD OR LEARN ANYTHING BY DENIGRATING OTHER PEOPLE'S EXPERIENCES OR IDEAS AND DISMISSING THEM. YOU GET ANALYZING AND AHEAD BY THINKING ABOUT THEM YOURSELF WHAT YOU TAKE IN.

Originally Posted by ;

So that you think you can turn 10 percent a month with a 50k account?

However, you insist a $300 account couldn't do the same?

I say, Invest $300 a month for 36 weeks. This is a vehicle payment for many Americans. Compounded earning 10 percent a month while keeping your regular occupation will net you 89,738.04 with just a $10800 investment over the course of 36 weeks.

Now do this for 4 years (48 Months the term of that standard vehicle loan). You've invested $14400 along with your account balance will be 288,051.70.

You cannot have it both ways. Either it is or it is not possible to earn 10 percent a month on a forex account. Capital does not have any relivance to this fact. My Broker lets me exchange all the way down to .01 Mini lots. I do and can apply money management to my transactions with an account as little as $300.

The difference is, you're advoing that people initially risk $50,000 to earn a living on Forex. I'm advoing you keep your work, spend a small amount and in less time then the average marrage you may have a number of savings and the ability to free yourself. Durring that time, you may keep your standard of living without risking health benifits, mortgage or food.

I most def. Agree with you that $30 can be made per month with a $300 account....AND that I DONOT advoe ANYBODY intially risking 50k....This article is about TRADING FOR A LIVING, and what the CAP requirements might be!!!
You may want to STUDY the postings .

What part do you not know??? If you're working in order not to risk your benefits, you're a part-time trader....NOT a complete time trader whom derives all his/her income ane benefits SOLELY out of trading.

Here's a simple case of a fulltime SCALPER trader....which I lean towards.

I exchange 10 full lots ( 1 million usd ), lets usage eur/usd for instance....

I get a 1.2 spread on Oanda....whether it takes me 1 trade or 2 transactions, I'll NET my 10-15 pips PER DAY....THAT is $1000 to $1500 PER DAY.

I have already netted 14 pips on usd/jpy....go to article, it is recorded LIVE.

I have run 2 LIVE trading sessions about a month ago....THE RESULTS are all live, time stamped. Look them up.

Now I did not get here overnight....but if you believe saying that CAPITALIZATION in the FX market is utter Bullshit I don't know what else to say.

Plus it seems you're saying ADDING $300 to your account each month....that isn't the same as STARTING with $300 and developing it out of there...I am not here to say your way is incorrect....slow and simple is greatest, BUT remember the TREAD content. Go to a banks working desk and complete your Capitalization is Bullshit opinion and they will laugh you.

And If any trader isn't Capped correctly....YES, keep your work, until you're able to trade full time, IF that is one's desire. Enough Said!

Originally Posted by ;

I most def. Agree with you that $30 could be reached per month using a $300 account....AND that I DONOT advoe ANYBODY intially risking 50k....This article is about TRADING FOR A LIVING, and what the CAP requirements might be!!!
You may want to STUDY the postings .

What part do you not know??? If you are working so as to not risk your benefits, you are a part time trader....NOT a full time trader whom succeeds all his/her revenue ane benefits SOLELY from trading.

Here's a simple example of a fulltime SCALPER trader....which I lean towards.

I trade 10 full lots ( 1 million usd ), lets use eur/usd as an example....

I get a 1.2 distribute on Oanda....whether it takes me 1 trade or two transactions, I WILL NET my 10-15 pips PER DAY....THAT is $1000 to $1500 PER DAY.

I have already netted 14 pips on usd/jpy....go to article, it is recorded LIVE.

I've run two LIVE trading sessions about a month ago....THE RESULTS are all live, time stamped. Look them up.

I did not get here overnight....but if you believe stating that CAPITALIZATION from the FX market is absolute Bullshit I do not know what else to say.

Plus it seems you are stating ADDING $300 to your account per month....that isn't the same as STARTING using $300 and developing it from there...I'm not here to say that your way is incorrect....slow and simple is best, BUT recall the TREAD content. Proceed to a banks working desk and complete your Capitalization is Bullshit remark and they'll laugh you.

And If any trader isn't Capped correctly....YES, keep your work, until you can trade full time, if this is one's want. Enough Said!

Ok,

Name of article:

trading systems vs account size

Nothin in that states Trading for a Living.


As a matter of fact that the first 6 paragraphs you submitted said nothing about trading for a living. Just in paragraphs 7, 8 and 9 did you vaguly reference making a living with forex, but that did not make the meat of your article so the premise from the title in addition to the first post was that this informative article had to do with you personally telling folks to not start an account without then $50,000.

read this thread:

https://www.nigeriaforextrading.com/...ok-review.html

And tell me if Capital is king or if Money Management and proper Risk Management is King. The later is said by me.

Maintaining a forex trading portfolio is very important for any forex platform or signal trader. A decision has been reached by me after viewing how systems have their own ups and downs. Not any platform can maintain a history of straight monthly profits, month after month. A trader who depends on his trading income for a living, will find it difficult when he has losing months. The goal of any trader is to keep a consistently Winning outcomes, month after month.
This may be accomplished by having a number of good trading strategies. And as I found lately, for example, if one system fails, the other wins. And if this system fails, the first one wins. So trading multiple very good systems, and strategies that are good are stressed by me, can be a crucial for traders' success.
The information I give is:
1- Trade 3-5 good systems
two - Alloe the transaction size for each platform, according to previous historical results
3- Try to save every pip it is possible to
4- Try to gain each interest you'll be able to
Trading for a living isn't easy. It's a stressing time occupation, which requires studying, testing, reading, learning, and innovating.

Originally Posted by ;

Oh Sorry Bill, I am not residing off from forex, however it is indeed cheaper to live in tropical island for comparison, a Mc Donald Fillet O'fish with cheese Little Coke Med Fries is significantly less than $2 (that is why it is called junk food right?) But it taste good... no refill though...
if you like vegetables you can cut the cost to 1/3.

Since the thread become more perplexing, should most of the mini trader broke, isn't it because it is retail? So that many use it, and try....
...
once I calculate, if I must live from forex using $200 a month with 10% return a year, I need 24.000 but if I could get 100% return a year, I still need 2.400.... I think it is back to ROI (Return of Investment)

and yes, somebody may ever become a billionaire from zero, even in forex

Hello Gwan

I understand you do not live off forex. My point was that there are individuals on this forum which could live off a mini account because of the gap in cost of living. I remembered what you told me about food and rent etc. in Indonesia.
Sometimes we forget all things are not equal throuout the entire world. But forex gains and losses are.

Keep fruits. McDonald's filet o fish is toxin. But those prehistoric fish you have been ching around (coelacanth?) Might be helpful.

All of the best
Bill

Some food for thought. Saw the video on youtube. It is taken off, so bad.


On April 30, Nippon TV broadcasted a special program entitled Net sociaty for 20 years: The man who got 2 billion yen($16 million) per 16 minutes at online trading.
This young man (29-years-old) who made high-class condominium of Minato-ku,Tokyo a trading room from this January has climbed 1.6 million yen($13333) to 16.5 billion yen($137.5 million) in 8 decades. He's most famous trader in Japan.
On the coverage day, he purchased and sold 200 of trades for 4 hours and a half and he set up profit of 30 million yen($250000).


So who states dre do not come true?

Originally Posted by ;

So you believe you can turn 10% a month using a 50k account?

However, you insist a $300 account could not do the same?

I say, Invest $300 a month for 36 months. This is a car payment for most Americans. Compounded making 10% a month whilst maintaining your routine occupation will net you 89,738.04 with only a $10800 investment over the course of 36 months.

Now do this for 4 years (48 Months the duration of the normal car loan). You have spent $14400 and your account balance would be 288,051.70.

You cannot have it both ways. Either it is or it's not possible to make 10% a month on a Currency Market account. Capital does not have any relivance to this actuality. My Broker lets me exchange all of the way down to .01 Mini lots. I do and can apply right money management to my trades using an account as small as $300.

The difference is, you're advoing that individuals initially risk $50,000 to make a living on Forex. I am advoing you maintain your work, spend a small sum and in less time then the marrage at America you may have a amount of savings and the ability to free yourself. Durring that time, you may keep your standard of living without risking health benifits, mortgage or food.

Perhaps I should use an example to evidence my purpose. If we've a $300 account it will be stupid to play standard lot ($10 per pip) cause the market needs to move 30pips and I am broke. I am sure we all agree with this. If I play $0.01 lots that is 1 cent a pip then 10 pips earn I 10 pennies, and 100 pips earns me 1. Ok I am gonna need 200 pips a month to create $2. I make between 700 and 2000 pips a month so the best I could do it 200 and also the worst I could do it 7. Since I will spend my time to make money, ok both scenario's is a waste of my time.

Nevertheless if I have a $100 000 account then I can play with $ 2 -$5 lots. Today 10 pips are worth $-20-$50. And 100 pips are worth $200-$500. And if I make my usual 700-2000 pips per month the best I could do is $10 000 and also the worst I could do is $1400 a month. It is not great BUT I afford myself the luxury of not needing to shut trades unless I need too. And that is worth A LOT to me.

Originally Posted by ;

The advice I give is:
1- Trade 3-5 good systems
two - Alloe the transaction size for each platform, based on previous historic results
3- Attempt to save every pip it is possible to
4- Attempt to acquire every interest you'll be able to
Trading for a living isn't easy. It's a stressing time occupation, which requires studying researching, reading, learning, and innovating.

That's humorous
In a non-offensive manner, don't get me wrong.
It is funny because I spent the last three weeks writing to at least three people they ought to stick to a single system and learn it inside out until they know what they're doing, exactly what the machine is performing and when where what why.

I mean, er, think about it. If you have 5 systems that perform equally well bottom line and you also keep your risk identical, then all you are doing is randomizing that the TIME of the loss, not changing the profitability in itself.
Now forgive me my speech, but to me that feels a lot like trying to polish a turd. However you try to hide it, it's still gonna stink(that'll be having the shedding months).

Now among the most difficult things to accept is that with routine profit comes regular declines. They are inevitable. Your line must remain positive, although you lose and win trades.
Now whether you take a look at this every month or week or year is all up for you, as is living with bad times. However, in case you can not choose a drawdown or need to hide it by juggling so many systems that you don't know where your mind is at the end, then I really don't know if that's exactly the plogical makeup that is gonna be effective at sustaining consistent profit in the long term.


I'd say
1. Locate a system, learn it, figure out why it works, UNDERSTAND why it works(of Nr. 1 importance for trust and confidence) and then build on it get it to a point where your entry/sizing/exit becomes (almost, based on whether it's mechanical or (component -)discretionary) completely automated behavior
2. Use a diligent, appropriate and suitable MM
3. Do not fuss over giving back half your pips on a PL if that is how your system operates. See 1. For that
4. Do not fret if that is the kind of transaction over paying attention you need to be right. See 1. again
5-50. Maintain a record. Record your mistakes, your own success, look over your trades, remember them, don't stop learning, keep an open mind but isolate yourself from different remarks in regards to your own trading and rankings, take time away, and free yourself from having to trade, don't worry over missing a transaction, don't be afraid of losses, don't blame yourself for market behaviour, don't take your neighbour when your fifth successive stop loss hit happens. Plus 40 other things I wrote in posts and my touch all over FF.

Phew!

Personal perspective/opinion on things, I could of course have it all wrong

How is ur trading going. I recalled u pm me some time ago. Hope u got my answer

Originally Posted by ;

I really do. Anything under 10-30k should not be using miniature lots. They are by far too significant. Micro sizing is a must for any account under those amounts to allow proper MM. If you're forced to use a minimum of 1 USD/pip then you are seriously overstaking and utilizing by risk. Your odds of blowing out when utilizing a practical system are far far far greater (do a risk analysis / simulation in case you don't trust me writing it) and you can basically just GIVE your broker the 500$ if that is what you're opening the miniature with.

I know half of the people forum will dispute and ridicule this announcement, but I feel that most of those screaming how they've turned 200$ into 2000$ and how it's perfectly fine to trade mini end up being the ones writing something along the lines blew my third account in 6 month's time.

Just my opinion and personal experience.

Also please realize that you can stake 500$ per pip with a micro account too. For some reason people keep on believing that just because you CAN use as little as a couple pennies that you HAVE to. No, you CAN. But what IS important is that you don't HAVE to use 1 USD/pip minutes and that of the difference in the world.

A fantastic way to tell how this enforced overstaking from the brokers is the way that they squeeze you dry is that if I asked about anyone offering micro when looking about for a new broker they all started go oh, er, well, hmmm, you know, that is THEORETICALLY possible, however... or just right out blatantly no sorry, we don't provide micro.

Right. It's sooooo impossible to allow for a neighborhood coping desk that they all operate pooling and offsetting of micros, but it is not silly to apply account management for. Righto, righto. .

Funnily enough some of the service desks/chat folks actually agreed that it is impossible to implement proper risk management with a miniature only account with such little a size....how's that for a laugh

sorry forgot to direct my message at you. How is ur trading currently moving? I remembered you pm me a while ago. Hope u made my answer